New Reg/Rec, Stator, and Rotor... Now What!!!

[voodoo]

Even though the stator is new, did you test it and also test for shorts to ground on it?

As I mentioned before... The entire charging system has checked out! Even though it runs like crap with power to the rotor, it still puts out an even 14v! Rotor tests out at 5 ohms exactly! Hot or cold... 5 ohms!

The pickup coil is just a sensor. I ohm-ed out the connections and ran a magnet across the pickup coil. It actuates! It's good!

What else is left? Besides the CDI?

 

[XSLeo]

You don't do any drilling on your rotor to fix the magnet, you just epoxy the new magnet over the existing one.

 

[xjwmx]

In the link, the guy was also getting 14v though it ran like crap I wish I could come over to your house and poke around on your bike with an oscilloscope during both conditions....

 

[voodoo]

You don't do any drilling on your rotor to fix the magnet, you just epoxy the new magnet over the existing one.

I don't think I have the clearance... There is only like 5mm or so between the rotor and the stator housing. I temporarily glued two small washers to the sensors on the pickup coil, but no dice! No change at all...

I've got all the replacement diodes and the transistor. I'll post pics and update everyone on the progress.

If this doesn't work, expect a call from me Pamco Pete!

 

[voodoo]

Okay... Got the rare earth magnet from the Shack this morning (strong-ass little bastards!!!) and epoxied it to the rotor. I didn't think it would clear the housing, but I had no idea just how small and powerful these things are! It's 4mm diameter and about 1.75mm thick! I'm going to let it set over night.

Here it is epoxied in....

 

[voodoo]

Can I say "FUKIN-A" on here????

All the grimlins went bye-bye!!!

After all this... A freakin' $1.85 magnet from Radio Shack solved all my problems! She runs like an escaped criminal now! 65mph in third! And she's cranking a solid 14.3v at top RPM!

Thank you guys so much for all the guidance and suggestions! I have learned a strange and rare lesson here and hope that anyone enduring the same issue runs across this thread.

 

[xjwmx]

Good deal. I'm curious what the result of changing the diodes would have been, since they're in series with the pickup and they degrade.

 

[voodoo]

Good deal. I'm curious what the result of changing the diodes would have been, since they're in series with the pickup and they degrade.

I did change the diodes! Also changed the transistor! Absolutely no difference! It still stumbled and popped and backfired at about 1/3 throttle.

I'm absolutely convinced that the brand new rotor and stator were creating such a STRONG magnetic field that it was interfering with the old pickup coil's ability to sense the Hall Effect from the built in magnet on the new rotor...

The little bitty rare earth magnet (about the size of a small watch battery) not only provided a much stronger magnetic field, but it also put the field a lot closer to the pickup coil (about 1.7 mm closer) making the Hall Effect stronger.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Great job voodoo Looks like xsleo zeroed in on the problem area. I believe pamcopete had also talked about the old magnets becoming weaker over the years. Time has a way of diminishing everything!

I don't think that its actually using the Hall Effect, as that would require a dedicated Hall Effect IC such as pamcopete uses in his ignition. I suspect the TCI circuit senses voltage pulses that are generated in the pick-up coils. Nevertheless, the rare earth magnet is obviously producing stronger pulses for the TCI board.

Lets hope the epoxy is strong enough to withstand the infamous vibrations of these fine engines...................but it will sure be obvious if the magnet falls off.

 

[xjwmx]

the brand new rotor and stator

Are they new manufacture? I wonder if one or the other is wound in such a way that it interferes with the magnet and pickup.

Some magnets can degrade over time, especially around heat and magnetic fields. But it makes me wonder why it doesn't happen to more of them - my magnet is still fine.

RG is right that the pickup isn't a switch but rather has a millivolt voltage induced in it as the magnet flys by. I just now checked my spare pickup to see. Typically that small voltage would be amplified and turned into a square wave further on. If it was a newer design, a single chip micro would do analog to digital conversions on the pickup and wait for the value to cross some threshold.

 

[voodoo]

Are they new manufacture? I wonder if one or the other is wound in such a way that it interferes with the magnet and pickup.

Some magnets can degrade over time, especially around heat and magnetic fields. But it makes me wonder why it doesn't happen to more of them - my magnet is still fine.

RG is right that the pickup isn't a switch but rather has a millivolt voltage induced in it as the magnet flys by. I just now checked my spare pickup to see. Typically that small voltage would be amplified and turned into a square wave further on. If it was a newer design, a single chip micro would do analog to digital conversions on the pickup and wait for the value to cross some threshold.

At least it's not running on Windows Vista!!!

The rotor and stator are both from Electro-Sports and I believe they are manufactured new being as they were not interested in a core. Maybe the magnet in the rotor is within specs and it's just the old pickup coil that is weak??? Nonetheless... the one-dollar fix did the job fantastically!

The little magnet slapped so hard against the rotor to begin with, I didn't know if it even needed epoxy or not??? The first epoxy I used was metallic and believe it or not... that little magnet was so strong it started migrating all the epoxy around the magnet to the face of the magnet! Damn! I came back after two hours and pried it off just to see how strong of a hold it had. Me and my vise grips will tell you- This thing is going nowhere!!!

I went back with some fine steel wool on the rotor and epoxied a new magnet, let it set overnight, and she fired right up!!!

 

[xjwmx]

Very, very interesting. What this translates to is the Electro-Sport parts are highly suspect!

If the bike was running Vista you wouldn't be able to find anything on it

 

[voodoo]

Very, very interesting. What this translates to is the Electro-Sport parts are highly suspect!

If the bike was running Vista you wouldn't be able to find anything on it

I would suspect the Electro Sports rotor, or... Maybe the pickup coil is just old and has lost a little of it's sensitivity? I have not found a clear way to test the pickup coil for anything other than actuation. Does anyone know of a good OHM or current you should be reading through the three wires coming from the pickup coil?

 

[xjwmx]

Pickup should read 700-800 ohms or so from the side by side lugs to the other one and twice that between the two side by side ones. Nothing to wear out in there. Not likely an intermittent connection inside it or the magnet wouldn't have fixed your problem. If you read substantially lower a coil might be shorted to itself and need a stronger magnet.

 

[voodoo]

Pickup should read 700-800 ohms or so from the side by side lugs to the other one and twice that between the two side by side ones. Nothing to wear out in there. Not likely an intermittent connection inside it or the magnet wouldn't have fixed your problem. If you read substantially lower a coil might be shorted to itself and need a stronger magnet.

Just so I understand... There are three wires coming from the pickup coil and two round sensors on the face. Of the three wires, one is black (I would assume a common). Do you measure across the two colored wires? Or do you measure colored wire to ground?

 

[xjwmx]

Colored wires to black wire, around 700-800 ohms for each one.

 

[voodoo]

Colored wires to black wire, around 700-800 ohms for each one.

Gotcha!!! Thank you very much! My Clymer's manual is starting to look like a sophomore's study-hall book! I'm thinking about scratching out Clymer's and writing NEW TESTAMENT instead!

 

[xjwmx]

I don't know what that means. Is it a secret Mason test or something?

 

[XSLeo]

Good to know that the magnet thing worked. Thank Pete and Plattey they figured it out I just relayed the info.

 

[xjwmx]

It's a new manufactured rotor though, not a junker or rewind.