No charge, at a loss.

tangent88

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Alright, firstly i tried using the search and reading through the forums before deciding to post here, but i am completely at a loss.

Essentially I am not getting a charge (or atleast an adequate charge) to the battery. At 1000rpm it's about 11.3v, at 3500-4000 it's 11.89 max (after adjusting the regulator).

I'll just lay out what i've done or checked thus far and see if you all can give me a clue:

About the bike:
1977 XS650, new to me, runs great (if not a little rich) other than the charging issue which kills it after the battery is drained. Oil cooler installed. original everything else as far as i can tell. Headlight will not come on (i've suspected this may be related, possible short?). Rear brake light works, no running light (not sure if it's supposed to have one).

Tinkering:
I have three rectifiers available to me; the original stock one, a radioshack bridge one i built, and one from my cb750 (82). All three read the same DC voltage output of 11.89.

I have two regulators, the one that came with the bike and a used one i picked up at a shop.

Two available batteries, brand new. One AGM, one regular.

I've tested the white wire to white wire coming from the stator, I get 30-35Vac across any combination (this seemed high to me).

Brand new brushes, three available sets. (Original owner kind of unloaded his garage on me in this deal)

It's hard to get my multimeter's probe to the inner slip ring on the rotor (with brushes removed) but i get a reading of 1-3ohms across the inner and outer. I know you're supposed to get 5-7, but i wouldn't think i'd be getting the AC out if the rotor or stator was the culprit.

Two available headlights, the original, and my cb750's i used to test with.

My turn signals on one side come on but don't blink, and on the other don't come on at all, so i imagine the flasher relay is bad too. (again, possible short eating my DC voltage?)

...

I think that about covers it, I really don't want to dip into out of pocket cost on a stator or rotor just to find out they weren't the problems, so any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
 
I'll preface with 'no expert here' but here's an observation. I run TCI on both of mine and my '83 rotor is a rewind that ohms at 4. My '77 is a stock rotor and ohms at 5. On charging....the '83 never goes above 13.75 or so volts @ 3k rpm whereas the '77 charges at 14+ volts @ 3k rpm -so low ohms on the rotor 'could' possibly have an effect.
Where are you in Hoosierland?
 
I was very skeptical when looking at the ohm reading from the rotor because I wasn't getting that good of a connection with my multimeter, and because the wire to wire on the AC side was so high. I am just curious as to whether you could still get a high output like that with a bad rotor and it somehow have an inverse effect on the rectifier...

It has enough magnetic pull to pull a small flat head screwdriver to the casing when the key is turned over.

I'm in Evansville, a bit southwest of you, but not too far off.
 
tangent88,

You are in serious denial. 1 to 3 Ohms on the slip rings tells you the rotor is fried. You will still get something out, but not much, which is exactly what you have.

Best to get a rebuilt from:

Custom Rewind
2014 Pratt Hwy.
Birmingham, AL
35214

800 798 7282

Or, take this opportunity to investigate the PMA option.
 
Thanks Pete, but it's not denial, it's inconsistency. I would think bad alternator's don't pump out that high of an AC voltage. I'm sure that 30-35Vac would drop with more load (i.e. the headlight or taillight running), but one would think that'd be plenty for a sufficient DC output from the rectifier.

I just want to make sure there isn't a possibility that my safety relay, or resistor, or flasher relay would possibly have a short draining the DC to ground.

The rotor's and stator's aren't cheap after all. If i have to buy one or have one rebuilt (thanks for the info), no problem, just making sure.
 
The rotor doesn't put out any thing. It uses battery voltage to create a magnetic field to excite the stator into creating current.
To test your rotor ohms once you remove the brushes remove the brush holder. This will give you more room to get your probe down in there.
I'm not sure of what is right on the AC volts but on my 75 I got about 11 or 12 VAC on the three white wires, this is with everything hooked up and the bike idling.
Leo
 
Yeah i understand that, could of worded that better. But that's exactly what has me questioning the rotor being bad. I've got nothing hooked up and on any combination of the two white wires i'm reading 30-35 VAC.

Unfortunately the brush holder's screw is stripped, so i'll have to bite the bullet and take care of that to get a concrete reading on the rings. I've got nothing but time on my hands though, so I've got no reason to jump off and buy a rebuilt or new rotor just yet.

I need to get to the bottom of the headlight issue regardless. Thanks everybody for the help thus far.
 
You have nothing hooked up and are getting an AC reading? With out the regulator hooked up the rotor doesn't get any current flow so it can't excite the stator.
So you shouldn't get any AC voltage.
On your 77 there should be a green wire at one brush and a black wire to the other brush.
Power comes from the battery on a brown wire to the regulator. If the regulator reads a low voltage on this brown wire it sends full battery voltage out on the green wire to the brush where it goes through the rotor, out the other brush and grounds to the stator and through the black wire to the harness ground.
This creates a magnetic field that excites the stator into producing electricity.
With the regulator unhooked no power can flow to the rotor, no power to rotor means no power out of the stator.
On your headlight I would check for dirty contacts in the on/off switch as well as the dimmer switch.
Leo
 
Its normal to read 12.5 to 13 volts AC on any 2 white wires with the engine idling, and the normal loads connected such as headlight, tailight , meter lights. 30 to 35 volts AC is very high.....................did you measure that with the alternator connector not connected to its normal load. You said the headlight is not working as well.

Regardless, if you get 1 to 3 ohms on the rotor slip rings, follow Pamcopete's advice. If you want good strong voltage for your bike, toss the old stock regulator in the garbage, and buy an automotive NOS VR-115 solid state regulator.
 
Nothing as in i've got no lights, signals etc., things needed to run the bike are obviously hooked up, as i wouldn't get an AC voltage reading without the bike running.

I'll check the contacts in the on/off switch, which i haven't done, I've just verified the wiring is hooked up correctly.
 
Yeah i thought that was high for these as well (little background, i'm an electrical controls designer, so meters aren't foreign). It's precisely this voltage output that confuses me so much, a weak rotor shouldn't be able to excite the stator to create a higher output right, shouldn't it be weaker, lower than the norm?

I"m measuring with the rectifier hooked up while it's running btw, with the RS rectifier my terminals are exposed enough to touch with the probes.

I'll definitely follow Pete's advice once i can verify the ohm reading across the rings. I'm just of the thought i should be getting the opposite of the readings i'm getting if it were bad.
 
The very high AC voltage is surprising, if the rotor is at 1 to 3 ohms. When I say 12.5 to 13 volts AC is normal at idle (with a load), its measured with a VOM so its RMS voltage. You aren't by any chance measuring Peak voltage are you?

Best to wait until you gain full access to the slip rings to make an accurate measurment. You could remove 2 long bolts that hold the alternator stator, and take off the stator. Then you would have complete access to the rotor slip rings.

Edit: You will likely need a manual impact tool to loosen the 2 stator bolts.
 
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