Tango & Cash Build Thread

nineosixdave

XS650 Enthusiast
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Welcome to the story of Tango & Cash. Two 1970 era Yamaha XS 650s pulled from the deep recesses of motorcycle purgatory to be stripped, laid bare, fantasized and with the help of this community, returned to the road as obnoxious little brats with attitude.

Some background on the builders. We are three brothers - John and Frank, fraternal twins 53 years old residing 30 miles apart in Indianapolis, Indiana and David 50, living approximately 600 miles away in Gainesville, Georgia.

It's somewhat important to note we grew up in a small town in East Central Illinois in a single parent household. Our father died at the far too young age of 52. Our mother, a nurse, NEVER allowed us to operate or ride as passengers on motorcycles. Instead we owned a Volkswagen dune buggy which we drove hard and broke on the local strip mines - repairing it through guesswork and a Chilton manual.

The intent of this thread is not only to post our progress and receive advice on moving the projects forward, but to also share and document our experiences as what some might consider "bucket list" items - bringing an old bike back from the dead and rekindling the hours spent as young boys, grease beneath the fingernails, on that piece of crap dune buggy.

I hope you hang around and participate in our adventure. Until the real work starts, you'll have to put up with my narrative of how the three of us came to own Tango & Cash.
 
Turns out this thread is going to be like a Quintin Tarantino Movie. Have no expectations of chronological order. I'll be mixing narrative with tech issues.

Let's flash forward - the scene, my garage on a beautiful Sunday afternoon.

On the shop table lay the victim; Tango's front suspension. It's scheduled for new seals, lowering kit and powder coat.

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Having read Hugh's and a couple other posts on dismantling the uppers from the lowers I decide to give dismantling a go. Quickly getting to this stage.

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Notice the broomstick with the 17mm end on it. I read in one of the posts where a guy skipped the whole welding a bolt to socket process and just jammed a broomstick into the 17mm allen. Being my first hobby is woodworking, I decide to go with what I knew and built a deep allen out of wood.

First a rasp.
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Then a test with a 17mm wrench.
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But low and behold, I have missed an instruction somewhere. There's no 17mm allen inside my upper.

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The perpetrator calls for help!
 
"Everybody be cool. This is a robbery!"

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Truly a Quentin Tarrantino story.. ..this is. Expecting one result and getting a crazy twist early on.

Seriously. Who would've thunk to find xs750 forks where you were expecting xs650s? Something tells me, Tango has been around. And, since Tango is not in my possession, except for the wheels, tank, forks, and triple trees, I have no way of knowing if there aren't more surprises in the frame awaiting discovery.

By the way, I am a open to your comments on whether I need to find a set of sx650 forks, another bike's altogether, or just stick with the xs750s, if that is truly what they are?

I guess I had better get back to the story on how the three brothers came upon Tango... and Cash.
 
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In the early 1970's there were a number of rumors circulating in my hometown about old jeeps. The same rumors were probably spreading between boys young and old all around the country.

"You can buy leftover WWII jeeps still in the crate for $50.00," the story went. You just had to know the right guy who knew how to get them.

That rumor was usually followed by the one where an old widow had a Corvette, XKE, or Harley covered up in a barn left behind by a son/husband who had died in Vietnam. I was too young to personally know any guys who died in the war. Or any widows with barns teaming with old treasures.

But I could dream..

Sometime in the early '90s on a trip home to visit my mother, I made a side trip to an old boyhood friends house. While sharing a beer in his barn, I lifted a tarp to find this underneath.

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A 1976 Harley Davidson FLH that he had personally customized to look like a 1960’s era Harley Davidson Duo Glide. My buddy Ken’s older brother, Marcel was the original owner. Seeing the bike, I commented, “If you ever want to sell it. Call me first.”

Time passed, and one day, years later I received a call. "Is this David?" the caller ask without introducing himself. "Yeah," I replied trying to recognize the voice on the other end. “She’s for sale. It’s yours if you want it.” I knew immediately what the caller was talking about.

“I want it. Give me a couple days,” I replied.

It was 1997. I was 35 years old and had just moved to Atlanta from San Jose, California. It just so happened my mother was visiting when I told my wife, a nurse, I wanted to buy a motorcycle.

“No.” replied my wife.

“I’m 35 years old. I want this motorcycle.”

My wife turned to my mother for support. “Florence, he wants to buy a motorcycle. What do you think?” (Wry grin on my wife’s face. Even at 35 she knew I would not go against Florence.)

Mom responded, ”Honey, he’s your problem now. I am not getting in the middle of this.”

A couple weeks later I flew to Indianapolis, drove over to Illinois with John and headed for Ken’s to pickup my, "barn find."

We pulled the tarp off the bike and loaded it onto a farm trailer for the haul to Atlanta. Back in the garage, enjoying a beer, Ken told stories about his travels on the bike. I commented about a bunch of neatly labeled parts, some in zip lock bags, laying on a table.

It’s another old Harley of Marcel’s. He wants me to restore it.

“If he ever want to sell it… Call me first.”
 
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Having just learned that I am NOT in possession of a set of xs650 forks it occurs to me that I can now open up Tango's design beyond its original plans. This also means I now find myself with a boatload of questions for this community regarding forks and triple trees.

Tango's rear wheel setup is a 16" rim with a "standard" xs650 drum brake hub. (Rim due for powder coat.)
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The front wheel is an 18" rim on what I can only explain as an early model xs650 "large drum" brake hub.
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As you can see I still have to acquire and lace a few spokes.

Let's start with the assumption that I want to use a larger diameter fork than I originally planned. I also like the look of an upside down or inverted fork setup. My suspicion is that these desires will lead to forks and trees built in the 21st century.

Please chime in on the key considerations for a standard xs650 frame application needed to help reduce machine shop modifications. For instance considerations regarding: bearings, races, length of neck and sx650 axle/hub. Am I just asking for headaches if I pursue a different fork/tree setup?

Thanks!
 
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Where's the xs650? It is xs650, not sx650. Post a picture of the bike and maybe we can identify what it is for you. We really aren't impressed much by harleys here.
 
Ooops! xs typo fixed. Tango is a 1975 or 1976 xs650 due to its VIN number which is matching on engine and frame. BTW - The Harley is just part of the story on how I came upon Tango. Impressed or not, it was a damn nice barn find.
 
Okay, so earlier I posted that Tango's front hub was off an early xs650. Well, wrong again. The hub is off a 1974 Yamaha RD200.

Here's a picture of the RD200 front hub right-hand view:
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Left-hand view:
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And in case you were interested a whole RD200:
RD200-M.png


So I have read some XS650 Forum Tech posts and have learned I have some mechanical design ahead of me. Turns out that a tab is required on the inside of the left-hand inside fork lower to lock the brake hub from turning with the wheel. You can see where the tab fits into the hub on the right hand side of my powder coated front wheel pictured in an earlier post above.

At least I know what I am getting into before I purchase front forks. My biggest worry is how I will get a tab designed that will work with an upside down fork. If anyone has any experience with this issue, please chime in.
 
So I go out to the garage last night with a box I received off eBay and pulled these two bad boys out.

Petcocks
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Extremely happy with my purchase (I paid $17 including shipping) I set them up on the table for pictures.

Then I looked over at the left fork that I discovered over the weekend was not off an xs650 and I realized that the fork I have has a tab - or stay - on it for a drum brake. So I grab the RD200 drum brake I have, lined up where the axle will go and realize the the fork's tab matches almost perfectly with the drum.

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So, for now I am going to keep the existing forks and use them for the rolling chassis and maybe for the final build.

All I need now is help getting the unknown fork the rest of the way apart. I'll try to add some more photos of the forks to get you folks' ideas on what I have.
 
After the debacle with the forks (above), I decided I would go out and find what I really wanted for the build from the start -- a set of 41mm upside down forks.

I searched eBay and craiglist pretty hard and then put a WANTED advertisement on the Georgia Off Road website. Within days I had three different choices that would fit the build from a $100 set of 2004 CRF450 forks and trees to a $300 set of KTM EXC forks and trees. In the end, I decided to go with the cheaper forks since I am going to have to do some cutting and pasting to get them sized and machined.

Here are the "new" forks
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There are going to be a number of issues involved in getting these forks setup correctly and any help that can be provided would certainly be appreciated.

Problem #1: The forks are going to have to be shortened.
The end result should be a level frame. The rear wheel is 16". The front 18". I have seen a lot of xs650 brats and cafes that have the original forks shortened 2" to 3". My problem is the dirt bike forks are much longer than the 650s to begin with. 2 to 3" shortening on them is just not going to be enough. Cash, my brother John's stock xs650, has an unweighted fork length of 31.25" - from top of forks to axle. The unweighted length of Tango's new forks is 37.5".

Problem #2: I have a drum hub and the forks are designed for disk brakes.
I think I have this one figured out. Going to manufacture a tab that attaches to the axle bolts and one of the disk brake braces.

Here is a closeup of the setup:
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Another view:

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Originally I was thinking I could build the drum brake tab off the disk extensions.
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But that won't work because it rotates the hub to the point where the speedometer cable would be entering from the bottom of the hub, 180 degrees, instead of from the correct position at 270 degrees.

Problem #3: The axle for the CRF forks was much bigger than the xs650 and the RD200 hubs. So a new axle will have to be turned along with some inserts or spacers for the forks.

Problem #4: The stem from a CRF 450 is obviously incorrect in both width and length. So I am going to have a new stem turned and pressed into the CRF trees that matches the bearings and races from the original xs650.

Once I get the drum hub stay completed, I plan to take a grinder to the disk brake mounts and clean up the lower fork. I'll wait to do that until much later to ensure the drum setup works.

So any thoughts on how to determine length of the forks prior to ever mounting them on the bike? Has anyone following this thread used dirt bike forks on their build and could provide a final length of the forks?

Thanks for following.
 
Along with working out the forks yesterday, I also put the front hub back together after having it blasted and powder coated. I noticed a lot of grit remained inside the hub from the blasting. I started with a soap and water wash and finished using alcohol and an air compressor. After it was all dry the parts went back in and a little bit of grease was applied to the speedo gears. Pretty satisfied with whole process.

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On Monday I pull into my parking space and look over to see this bike sitting in a spot nearby.

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Holy Crap! That's almost exactly the bike I plan to build. I grab my business card, write a note on the back and stick it on the bike so the owner can contact me. I then snap about 20 pictures of the bike for reference. Later in the day, the owner it was originally a 1981 xs400.

One of the things I notice first about the bike is that it has the front wheel and hub that I have - so now I know exactly what mine came off which helps tremendously in ordering spokes and parts.

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The problem now is that I am not sure I like the front wheel. It's not nearly as beefy as I would like on Tango. Will have to do some research to find our how wide a tire can be put on my rim.

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Now that I have the massive forks off the crf450 I might have to rethink the plan on the front wheel. Sure glad I didn't start cutting disk brake parts off the lower fork. I'm am about $300 into the purchase plus sand blasting and powder coating the hub and wheel and have another $50 in spokes on the way. Seems a waste not to follow the original plan but I think it might look really odd. Of course, I will save myself a lot of trouble trying to mount the drum hub on the disk forks. And I wound not have to machine a new axle. So for the time being, I am going to research a more modern spoke wheel and disk brakes.

Luckily, John has Cash (the bike) up in Indy and maybe he would like a nicely powder coated front wheel and rim.
 
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