Very basic beginner questions

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GraemeH

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Hi - I recently inherited a 1978 XS650 in excellent condition. I haven't wielded a spanner since the 70's on my Triumph Thunderbird, but now intend to look after this machine and re-learn some skills.

Basic question no. 1: The manual says 20W40 oil which I can't find anywhere here in Austria. Will 20W50 make any difference, or what spec is as good as 20W40? Synthetic or mineral?

No 2: I've seen special points files advertised. Is any thin file, even a nail file or emery cloth not good enough for this?

I will have loads more questions and will need some hand-holding later :) . In the meantime I am happy to have found this site and will start poking around.

Cheers, GraemeH

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Welcome and congratulations on your new bike. It looks great! 20W50 is what I run. Make sure it’s suitable for a motorcycle with a wet clutch.

Judging by the stains on the left engine side cover, your carb(s) must be leaking. You should empty out the fuel bowls before attempting to start it. You can do that with carbs still attached to the engine. If they’re clean you might be good to go. If dirty or have remnants of dried old fuel, you’re looking at a crab cleaning / rebuild.

As you work on your bike, post lots of pictures. You’ll find we like photos and it’s also easier to help you diagnose issues. There’s a good post in the forum about starting up a bike that’s been stored a while. Not sure if that applies to you though.

Fir a points file I’ve used a proper points file and sometimes emery cloth doubled over. It’s just important to keep the two surfaces parallel and use a fine grit to keep the point surfaces smooth.

Have fun with your new ride!
 
GraemeH

Guten tag. Welcome to the site.

The Tyrol in the Österreich is probably the finest place I can think of to ride a 650.

Nice looking bike. Looks well taken care of.

I've always used 20-50 Castrol myself. Now days the Castrol V Twin looks like a good choice. You will hear many opinions here on oil choices. Searce on oil here and you will see what the collected wisdom here thinks.

For points files I have always used the metal file on a set of nail clippers. Don't use a garnet nail file. Leaves a residue on the points.

Jack
 
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Oh my, that's one fine looking bike, and a European model to boot. We don't see many of those. Welcome to the site.

Yes, 20W-50 is fine and what most of us run. That 20W-40 was sort of a Yamaha thing and only available from their dealers. Use old fashioned mineral oil, not synthetic, and change it often, like every 1000 to 1500 miles. The bike has 2 oil filters but they're just the metal screen type that you wash and re-use. They work but don't filter as well as a paper filter so the best way to have clean oil is just to change it often.

Yes, any thin file should work on the points faces but just keep in mind that points are a wear item and should be replaced like every 10 to 15K miles. It's not so much for worn faces but rather because the spring steel strap that snaps them closed gets weak. If you got no maintenance records with the bike indicating when the points were last changed, you may want to start out fresh here with some new ones.
 
Welcome GraemeH - from Canada's sunny southern coast in Windsor, ON!

As others have said, 20W50 oil will be fine and either mineral or synthetic is good - BUT - there is a big gotcha in terms of oil.

You must look at the oil bottle careful to make sure that it will not make your wet clutch slip - and the easiest way to tell is to look for an API (American Petroleum Institute) label that says something like: "Resource Conserving" or "Energy Conserving" or anything like that.

If you see that little round label - DO NOT use that oil in your motorcycle. It won't hurt the engine - but it will make the clutch slip and that will be a pain. NOTE - it is not the "API Service Grade" that is the concern. It is the "Resource Conserving" thing - that means the oil contains special additives to reduce friction - but these additives will make your clutch slip.

Here is what the offending label looks like:

BAD_Oil - NO_for_BIKES - API_Energy-Conserving.JPG


The other pieces of advice with which I think everyone will concur are:

1) get a good shop manual for the bike (they can be downloaded free (sorry I don't have the link handy - but someone else will have it).

2) get a torque wrench - the cylinder head and base gase gaskets tend to weep a bit but the weeping will usually stop if you re-torque the head periodically - but be sure to follow the torquing sequence.

3) get a set of proper JIS screwdrivers. They look like a Philips - but they are not. JIS drivers are available online quite inexpensively from www.gofastinnovations.com or on Amazon and a good brand is Vessel" which are made in Japan.

This is a great group of people who will help you very efficiently - but be sure to post lots of photos of your bike as we all like photos.

Looks like you've got yourself a ballgame there!

Pete
 
GraemeH said:
Hi - I recently inherited a 1978 XS650 in excellent condition. I haven't wielded a spanner since the 70's on my Triumph Thunderbird, but now intend to look after this machine and re-learn some skills.

Basic question no. 1: The manual says 20W40 oil which I can't find anywhere here in Austria. Will 20W50 make any difference, or what spec is as good as 20W40? Synthetic or mineral?

No 2: I've seen special points files advertised. Is any thin file, even a nail file or emery cloth not good enough for this?

I will have loads more questions and will need some hand-holding later :) . In the meantime I am happy to have found this site and will start poking around.

Cheers, GraemeH

View attachment 209331
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Well I don’t know the circumstance of the inheritance, maybe sad; but the custodianship of that machine is a great way to resolve any sadness. I’m looking forward to you developing and enjoying your new acquisition.
Welcome to our special brethren.
 
GraemeH said:
Hi - I recently inherited a 1978 XS650 in excellent condition. I haven't wielded a spanner since the 70's on my Triumph Thunderbird, but now intend to look after this machine and re-learn some skills.

Basic question no. 1: The manual says 20W40 oil which I can't find anywhere here in Austria. Will 20W50 make any difference, or what spec is as good as 20W40? Synthetic or mineral?

No 2: I've seen special points files advertised. Is any thin file, even a nail file or emery cloth not good enough for this?

I will have loads more questions and will need some hand-holding later :) . In the meantime I am happy to have found this site and will start poking around.

Cheers, GraemeH

View attachment 209331
Click to expand...
Hi Graeme and welcome,
nice bike.
Use bargain basement 20W50 oil because you should be changing it every 2,000KM. There's no point in buying the expensive stuff that lasts 20,000KM because the XS650 engine uses wire-mesh cooking oil strainers for oil filters and they let through everything smaller than a broken off gear tooth so the oil blackens up real quick. Fancy points files are great but I've done OK using a 4-fold of 360 grit wet'n'dry paper.
 
Hi GraemeH and welcome,

That's a real nice example of a Euro 78 standard. Don't think we have ever had one of these on this site before, Had UK 75's and 77's and some Euro US Customs but not one like yours.

Basically the same as what the rest of the world got but the Euro models did have some differences that will come up, and some that probably wont.

Here is a link that has links to online manuals, general information and ID/Vin visuals with some written differences between models

https://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650...workshop-manuals-and-other-information.30569/

Having previously done some mechanical work it will come back to you once you get onto it, like riding a bike, (pun intended).

On the points, personally, i wouldn't use emery cloth. Get a proper points file because it is designed to not only clean the points buy to file them down if there is some small pitting and using the file properly, will keep the faces of the points square to each other. Can also be used on the spark plugs.

Visual difference on your bike is the front brakes and forks. The rotors are around 265mm, (US and the rest of the world got 300mm rotors), because they have a smaller diameter the calipers sit lower down on the forks making the fork lowers Euro specific.

Euro bikes got different internals from 75 and these are Euro specific again. In the link i posted it touches on this and there is a pic to go with the paragraph.

love that paint job. Bike looks smart.
 
5twins said:
Oh my, that's one fine looking bike, and a European model to boot. We don't see many of those. Welcome to the site.

Yes, 20W-50 is fine and what most of us run. That 20W-40 was sort of a Yamaha thing and only available from their dealers. Use old fashioned mineral oil, not synthetic, and change it often, like every 1000 to 1500 miles. The bike has 2 oil filters but they're just the metal screen type that you wash and re-use. They work but don't filter as well as a paper filter so the best way to have clean oil is just to change it often.

Yes, any thin file should work on the points faces but just keep in mind that points are a wear item and should be replaced like every 10 to 15K miles. It's not so much for worn faces but rather because the spring steel strap that snaps them closed gets weak. If you got no maintenance records with the bike indicating when the points were last changed, you may want to start out fresh here with some new ones.
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Why don't you like synthetics? I know it's apple and oranges, but I run synthetic in the engine, clutch and transmission in my H-D. Not arguing, just asking.
 
I have nothing against synthetic oil, I just feel it's a waste of money on this bike because you change it so frequently. One of the big benefits of synthetic is the long change intervals and, well, you just don't get that with this bike.
 
5twins said:
I have nothing against synthetic oil, I just feel it's a waste of money on this bike because you change it so frequently. One of the big benefits of synthetic is the long change intervals and, well, you just don't get that with this bike.
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Understand. The one big benefit with synthetic is lower oil temps. I don't know if that is an issue with XS650's.
 
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