Well boys, I got a mess on my hands...

[gnarlydavidson]

Hello gents. It's been a while since I posted on here, so I'll start with a bit of back story.

I bought my XS650 while I was deployed to Afghanistan with the goal of building a little street tracker for cruising around town. It's a '75 with around 6,000 miles. I slowly started buying and collecting parts. I eventually got to a place where I was ready to start installing stuff, and after digging in to the wiring up the new parts I had purchased, I realized I was in over my head. With a deployment looming, I brought the bike to a reputable local shop and told them what I wanted done.

The install of the parts took a while, and near the end I asked that they tune the bike for me (I had a couple of race carbs thrown on it because, well, power!) I got a call from the shop with some pretty unfortunate news; while they were starting the bike to begin tuning it, the starter made a god-awful noise and when they dug in to it, they found that the circlip on the end of the starter had snapped, and was now a free radical in the engine. Its been a couple of years since I received the bike back, but I am fairly certain the circlip being they're talking about is the one in the picture I attached.

I'd really like to get this thing going. It has a lot of sentimental value due to where I was when I purchased it. I've called all the local shops and none of them are willing the split the cases on a bike this old to remove the old circlip. I'm hoping to get some advice from you experts regarding the following:

What is my best / cheapest option to get this problem fixed? (Money is tight)
What year engines will be a direct drop in for this bike?
I've epoxied some magnets to the drain plugs and tried cranking it over to move the oil around to try to trap the old circlip - no results. Any other tricks you boys can think of?

 

[Signal]

Some things you could do.

Drain the oil and remove the sump plate.
If its not there get a magnet on a telescopic stick thingy and wave it around inside the lower cases.
If still no luck remove the clutch cover and have a look from that side.
You may need to remove the clutch basket as well.
By the way the drain plugs do have magnets in them.

 

[MaxPete]

Also, try going down the dipstick hole with the magnet.

Pete

 

[gggGary]

Fuggetaboutit, and run it?
Gotta be a story there. Never heard of that circlip letting go.

 

[XSLeo]

I would drain the oil, pull right side engine cover.
Look at everything you can see in there. look in you manual for pics that show the stuff in there. Compare what you see to what the pics show.
If that clip is not where it should be there will be 4 or 5 more parts off that shaft.
Leo

 

[gnarlydavidson]

Some things you could do.

Drain the oil and remove the sump plate.
If its not there get a magnet on a telescopic stick thingy and wave it around inside the lower cases.
If still no luck remove the clutch cover and have a look from that side.
You may need to remove the clutch basket as well.
By the way the drain plugs do have magnets in them.

Done, done, and done. I know they have magnets, but we've come a long way since 1975 so I put some neodymium magnets on there to try and pull the FOD out. Still no luck

 

[gnarlydavidson]

Also, try going down the dipstick hole with the magnet.

Pete

I actually haven't tried this yet! I'll give it a while later today.

 

[gnarlydavidson]

Fuggetaboutit, and run it?
Gotta be a story there. Never heard of that circlip letting go.

Yeah, I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall of the shop. I like to give the benefit of the doubt, so I don't wanna suspect something went wrong. Old bike, possible previous problem, yadda yadda. Either way, I just wanna ride it! lol. The shop won't do any more work for fear of the free radical creating explodey bits.

 

[gnarlydavidson]

I would drain the oil, pull right side engine cover.
Look at everything you can see in there. look in you manual for pics that show the stuff in there. Compare what you see to what the pics show.
If that clip is not where it should be there will be 4 or 5 more parts off that shaft.
Leo

Hey Leo. So, I just tried pulling the side cover. It's stuck like a pig on there. I tried gently tapping it with a rubber mallet, I tried getting it apart with a plastic wedge, I tried beating the hell out of it with a rubber mallet, no luck. Any tips for a stuck cover?

 

[motormike]

at the front... tach drive. there's a small " nipple " of side cover that sticks out.. I take a piece of wood.. and with a brass hammer.. tap tap… don't rush the tap tap.. it will come loose.

 

[gnarlydavidson]

at the front... tach drive. there's a small " nipple " of side cover that sticks out.. I take a piece of wood.. and with a brass hammer.. tap tap… don't rush the tap tap.. it will come loose.

Sounds like a task best done with the motor off the frame

 

[motormike]

with the sump cover off.. drain plugs out... clutch cover off... the starter can be removed in the frame... you may need to flush the insides with... ?... the stiction of the old oil may prevent the " clip ".. from be'n pick'd up by the magnet… this is a first.. starter end clip..? Keep us informed. I'd replace the starter seal... a section of PCV pipe..… works well... I make it long enuf to tap the seal home with a hammer.. I use the side of a heavy hammer and let the mass of the hammer head set the seal...

 

[gggGary]

Hey Leo. So, I just tried pulling the side cover. It's stuck like a pig on there. I tried gently tapping it with a rubber mallet, I tried getting it apart with a plastic wedge, I tried beating the hell out of it with a rubber mallet, no luck. Any tips for a stuck cover?

The back of the cover usually comes loose first/easier, wedge a putty knife in the gap as far forward as you can get it, top AND bottom if you can, THEN tap on the back where the cover is open it will pop the front open. Works every time. If it won't come loose at all; sharpen a stiff putty knife so it has nice taper, round the corners so you don't gouge aluminum. tap it into the gasket towards the back of the cover. Then do as above. Odds are a dreaded PO used sealer on both sides of the gasket, a real NoNo. When replacing use oil or grease on the gasket not sealer. The factory sealed the gasket to the cover, with a small dab of sealer on the cases at the front and rear case joints.

 

[GLJ]

Sounds like a task best done with the motor off the frame

Won't be any easier with the motor out as in.

 

[gnarlydavidson]

Won't be any easier with the motor out as in.

Well, to access the tach nipple to tap it as the poster was saying, you'd have to have the motor out of the bike.

 

[GLJ]

Should be room to get a brass drift in there to tap the cover.

 

[gggGary]

Well, to access the tach nipple to tap it as the poster was saying, you'd have to have the motor out of the bike.

not inside the tach drive, the cover sticks slightly forward of the crankcase.

 

[fredintoon]

- - - What is my best / cheapest option to get this problem fixed? (Money is tight)
What year engines will be a direct drop in for this bike?
I've epoxied some magnets to the drain plugs and tried cranking it over to move the oil around to try to trap the old circlip - no results. Any other tricks you boys can think of?

Hi gnarly,
best/cheapest option is to do it yourself. Carefully. Note that bike shops sometimes tell lies.
Any engine '73 or later, Earlier engines will fit but some parts won't swap. '80 & later engines got no-points ignition.
You may get better luck finding loose parts with a kerosene wash through.

 

[5twins]

If that shop discovered that starter gear assembly circlip was missing then they must have had that right side cover off. It should come back off easily unless they plastered gasket sealer all over it when they put it back on. If that's the case, I'd find another shop, those guys are no good. It's also possible they never took the cover off and told you what they did because they didn't want to work on the bike.

You have to get that cover off and investigate for yourself. As Leo mentioned, there are several other small parts directly under that circlip which will fall off without it.

 

[MaxPete]

Everyone has their little tricks and sharing them is part of the magic of this forum.

Brass or aluminium certainly do make good drifts, but I normally use a piece of hardwood for a task like knocking that stuck engine case cover off. I have an old hammer handle which won't hold the steel hammer head any longer and also a piece of an old hockey stick (I'm Canadian don't ya know) for longer applications. They make great swattin' sticks or for use as drifts for knocking off stuck engine parts etc. There is no way the wood will mark a piece of metal and yet, it transmits shock very well when trying to jar something loose.

Also, I think that hockey sticks are made of ashwood ....and you know what they say...

<wait for it>...

<you know its coming>....

• There's nothin' like a nice piece of ash.

All seriousness aside, the best thing of course is to have a threaded withdrawal hole to gently lever the piece off with a bolt screwed into a tapped hole - but that requires foresight on the part of the original designers and that was usually absent in relatively low cost items like motorcycles.