Good question about the regulator sending different voltages.
Scott
Scott
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New ROTOR installed, few questions
- Thread starter XS650D
- Start date
No, the type 'A' uses the green to regulate the ground. If that were the case, you wouldn't have any output from the alternator. You're definitely using the right type because the green is sending power out to the brush.
Agreed. I'm drawing a blank as to why it's low. But being low won't hurt anything as long as the alternator keeps the battery charged... and 14.2v will more than do that.
Those I've dealt with are just glorified switches... fast acting... but either on or off.
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
Curious,i called SMP(standard motor products) and asked them about there VR-115. They stated that the Orange and yellow wire should not be connected. if I recall they state the orange wire is suppose to be for indicators but dont see why that should matter.
They did say that my Alternator may not put out enough Amps to work the VR115 properly and that could
be why the low readings out the green. Obviously they stated that that Reg is not designed for
for the application of an xs650 Alternator and electrical system .Not surprised with that. Im sure many have used
this unit without issues. FYI . If someone with this Reg could throw a meter on there unit and advise, would help
us understand.Maybe theres a unit available that may work better. I wish I had the old original for test purposes but I tossed it long ago!
They did say that my Alternator may not put out enough Amps to work the VR115 properly and that could
be why the low readings out the green. Obviously they stated that that Reg is not designed for
for the application of an xs650 Alternator and electrical system .Not surprised with that. Im sure many have used
this unit without issues. FYI . If someone with this Reg could throw a meter on there unit and advise, would help
us understand.Maybe theres a unit available that may work better. I wish I had the old original for test purposes but I tossed it long ago!
I just tested my green wire voltage output at idle and got the same as you, a bit over 10 volts. I'm guessing that's normal then? I've had my VR115 installed for several years now and haven't had any charging issues. It gives me consistent low to mid 14's revved right after starting, according to my dash mounted voltmeter. After riding a few miles and the battery gets replenished, that drops to the low 14's, sometimes even just under to like 13.8 or 13.9. I'm thinking that's normal too. It's just the regulator doing it's thing, "regulating" the output based on the battery's charging needs.
Pamcopete is the guy who came up with these auto regulator adaptations. Combining the orange and yellow wires to the brown comes from his install instructions but he doesn't give any reasons as to why.
Pamcopete is the guy who came up with these auto regulator adaptations. Combining the orange and yellow wires to the brown comes from his install instructions but he doesn't give any reasons as to why.
I'm suspecting it is. Bob is also running a VR-115 and he's gonna check his for us. If we get 3 out of 3, I'm gonna jump out on a limb and call it normal.
I believe that's normal. When you first start the bike, the reg reads low battery voltage, so it sends full voltage through the rotor. This charges the battery quickly.
Once the battery is fully charged the reg reads full voltage, so it sends less voltage through the rotor. This reduces the output.
On the old mechanical units they turned the power on/off. If the battery was low the on portion was longer than the off. Once full the off was longer.
At first start then voltage on the green wire will be at battery voltage. As the battery reaches full charge the green wire voltage drops. The 10 or so volts sounds about right. Seems like some one reported that voltage down around 6.5 volts. Don't recall just who.
Perhaps I'll get ambitious and take a meter out and check my 75 with the Fiat reg and the 83, All stock.
Leo
Once the battery is fully charged the reg reads full voltage, so it sends less voltage through the rotor. This reduces the output.
On the old mechanical units they turned the power on/off. If the battery was low the on portion was longer than the off. Once full the off was longer.
At first start then voltage on the green wire will be at battery voltage. As the battery reaches full charge the green wire voltage drops. The 10 or so volts sounds about right. Seems like some one reported that voltage down around 6.5 volts. Don't recall just who.
Perhaps I'll get ambitious and take a meter out and check my 75 with the Fiat reg and the 83, All stock.
Leo
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
Thx Guys!! I will sleep better tonite LOL.
XSLeo ive yet to see anything more than 11 Volts at the green and as low as 9.7 Volts after a
20 minute ride tested at the brush Pos. So the Voltage dropped after a ride.
5T thats the readings im getting at the battery with new reg ,also fluctuating between 14.1 and 14.4 depending on rpm
and how charged the battery is I guess. As for the New LED I installed, it seems to read close to battery
voltage idling but when riding it seems to top out at 13.6 to 13.7 Volts were as the battery will show
low 14,s . Strange. I have it hooked to a brown in headlight bucket and grounded to a black in the bucket also.
Honestly its just a guide to alert me off a bigger problem before breakin down somewhere or draining my battery.
As for the legibility, cant read it in the sun light, have to cover it with my hand , cloudy days no problem!
XSLeo ive yet to see anything more than 11 Volts at the green and as low as 9.7 Volts after a
20 minute ride tested at the brush Pos. So the Voltage dropped after a ride.
5T thats the readings im getting at the battery with new reg ,also fluctuating between 14.1 and 14.4 depending on rpm
and how charged the battery is I guess. As for the New LED I installed, it seems to read close to battery
voltage idling but when riding it seems to top out at 13.6 to 13.7 Volts were as the battery will show
low 14,s . Strange. I have it hooked to a brown in headlight bucket and grounded to a black in the bucket also.
Honestly its just a guide to alert me off a bigger problem before breakin down somewhere or draining my battery.
As for the legibility, cant read it in the sun light, have to cover it with my hand , cloudy days no problem!
That's odd. It's opposite of what my LED voltmeter does. At speed and higher RPMs (full charging output), I only see about a tenth of a volt less than the battery on the LED. At idle though, I see a good half volt less on the LED.
XS650D
XS650 Junkie
I dont think these 2 dollar LED,s are real high end quality piece. I feel there more of a heads up for potential electrical issues.
And I am good with that. I just got back from a 1/2 hr test ride and the LED is now showing up to 14.2 Volts probably
cause my battery was reading 14.5. I guess it depends on what the Regs doing ,state of battery charge and rpms ect.
It seems that the problems never end with this old bike, noticed a base gasket leak on the right side when I got back, Probably due for a retorque. I can deal with that.The electrical for me is a giant Hemroid!
Thx again everyone for all there help with my electrical (3 weeks of painful learning) Jim your rotor has already lasted longer than the last 2 I had!
Finally back on the road!
And I am good with that. I just got back from a 1/2 hr test ride and the LED is now showing up to 14.2 Volts probably
cause my battery was reading 14.5. I guess it depends on what the Regs doing ,state of battery charge and rpms ect.
It seems that the problems never end with this old bike, noticed a base gasket leak on the right side when I got back, Probably due for a retorque. I can deal with that.The electrical for me is a giant Hemroid!
Thx again everyone for all there help with my electrical (3 weeks of painful learning) Jim your rotor has already lasted longer than the last 2 I had!
Finally back on the road!
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Fwiw... my Chinese voltmeter is all over the place too.
Here's hoping the rotor lasts as long as the original.
Here's hoping the rotor lasts as long as the original.
From an old posting:
Based on the wiring assignments:
Orange provides power to the regulator and this power comes via the ignition switch along the harness brown wire
Yellow is a voltage sensor wire and tells the regulator what voltage the alternator output from the rectifier is and then the regulator adjusts the alternator field current accordingly.
Orange and Yellow get tired together and take their power via the ignition switch on the brown wire.
Green goes to the green field winding wire.
Black connects to the harness black wire which is the earth on the bike frame.
Based on the wiring assignments:
Orange provides power to the regulator and this power comes via the ignition switch along the harness brown wire
Yellow is a voltage sensor wire and tells the regulator what voltage the alternator output from the rectifier is and then the regulator adjusts the alternator field current accordingly.
Orange and Yellow get tired together and take their power via the ignition switch on the brown wire.
Green goes to the green field winding wire.
Black connects to the harness black wire which is the earth on the bike frame.
Now, the voltage drop you're seeing at the rotor's brush.
Here's the schematic for the stock 70-79 alternator.
Zoom in on the relay-type regulator.
This relay-type regulator has 3 states, full-on, Intermediate, and grounded. In full-on mode (as shown above), the voltage at the brown wire will be fully delivered thru the contacts to the green wire, assuming that the contacts are in good shape.
Here's the schematic for the stock 70-79 alternator.
Zoom in on the relay-type regulator.
This relay-type regulator has 3 states, full-on, Intermediate, and grounded. In full-on mode (as shown above), the voltage at the brown wire will be fully delivered thru the contacts to the green wire, assuming that the contacts are in good shape.
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Now, the later type solid-state regulators.
They will exist in 2 forms,
The A-type (bottom depiction) and
The B-type (upper depiction).
Here's a schematic for an A-type alternator, as used in the 80-83 models.
Note that these more modern regulators use a transistor to control the voltage/current to the rotor. The transistor is a specially designed "linear power transistor", which acts like a rheostat or potentiometer. Just imagine that you're looking at a the battery's voltmeter, and slowly adjusting a dial to keep the battery voltage at some specific level.
Linear power transistors can have voltage drops across them anywhere from 0.8v to 1.5v, depending on construction, current, and temperature. So, you'll never see full voltage delivered to the rotor's brush.
Does this help?
They will exist in 2 forms,
The A-type (bottom depiction) and
The B-type (upper depiction).
Here's a schematic for an A-type alternator, as used in the 80-83 models.
Note that these more modern regulators use a transistor to control the voltage/current to the rotor. The transistor is a specially designed "linear power transistor", which acts like a rheostat or potentiometer. Just imagine that you're looking at a the battery's voltmeter, and slowly adjusting a dial to keep the battery voltage at some specific level.
Linear power transistors can have voltage drops across them anywhere from 0.8v to 1.5v, depending on construction, current, and temperature. So, you'll never see full voltage delivered to the rotor's brush.
Does this help?
Mailman checked his bike (VR-115 reg). 12.5v at the batt. and 10.55 at the brush
An idea for youze guyz.
A manual/momentary pushbutton switch, wired to bypass the regulator's transistor. It'll give the charging system a boost, maybe to shorten recovery time after electric start, brighten lighting during idle, improve ignition during idle.
Or, an automatically driven relay, bypasses the transistor when battery voltage drops below a target threshold...?
A manual/momentary pushbutton switch, wired to bypass the regulator's transistor. It'll give the charging system a boost, maybe to shorten recovery time after electric start, brighten lighting during idle, improve ignition during idle.
Or, an automatically driven relay, bypasses the transistor when battery voltage drops below a target threshold...?
