82 XS650 Starts then dies

This forum is awesome! So much information. Sadly I am away from the bike and not working on it currently which is a problem because I thought I was making some progress there (tiny progress but progress)

Peanut, Paul is right about the TCI being in a box and all the info he gave. I also grounded everything that was attached to the frame during the most recent tests so everything is grounded 100% now.

Paul Sutton said:
I have checked the parts list on "shopyamaha" and the ignition setup is basically identical to the XS SH. The TCI is in the same plastic box which is held in with 2 bolts under the battery and behind the regulator. The box is not earthed (plastic) and the TCI has a black wire that goes to the harness earth wire via the TCI pin connector. Heating is minimal from the switching transistor since it is only ever switched fully on or off. The transistor has a small minimal heat sink without any fins. The plastic box essentially has no ventilation but does have two small holes facing down which I assume are for the release of water/vapour. I suspect the Zener diode mentioned is one of the small glass ones located on the PCB - they handle only a few milliamps and do not require heat sinks.

Perhaps the TCI is faulty or even the coil? We have a real puzzle here! If the TCI has a doublesided PCB then all the semiconductor components are available, unlike the XS SH single sided PCB.

Note Added: Are those 5K ohm resistor caps on the plugs. They are generally a must with electronic ignition (TCI) to prevent electrical interference to the control board.
Click to expand...

Paul, I started thinking a faulty coil and as soon as I get back to the bike I was going to look into that side of it to test everything out. I buried my repair manual last time and couldn't figure out how to test it. Found it right before I left.

littlebill31 said:
Id be willing to let you borrow a TCI I have. However, it is for an '81, which is 6 pin. The '82 has a 7 pin, so a minor modification would be needed on your end. (Side stand safety switch)
Click to expand...

I looked over the connections and it looks like it is pin to pin for the TCI so it would be plug and play the only thing I see is I would have to run jumper wires between the two so that I don't damage the 6 pin connector.
 
cal
did you ever test the TCI as described in the thread I gave a link to in post #70 ?

.
 
Last edited:
peanut said:
cal
did you ever test the TCI as described in the thread I gave a link to in post #70 ?
http://www.xs650.com/threads/how-to-troubleshoot-the-tci-ignition-system.24161/

In that thread one of the images shows the TCI bolted to the frame both ends with a metal strip attached to the plastic box.
The poster bpeckm also has an additional ground strap direct to the frame and battery negative .
View attachment 92909
Click to expand...

Peanut, that looks like the ignition coil

This is what my TCI box looks like this.
2-16-4053.jpg

It is bolted under the battery box.

I will be checking over the entire ignition system like that thread reads and see if we make any progress.
 
Dammit Cal - this is getting monotonous - let's get this danged motorcycle running!

I'm comin' over, but I do have two questions:
1) where the heck is Chittenango NY?
2) it it warmer there than it is here in Windsor / Detroit?
3) have you got any BEvERages on hand, or should I bring some?

OK, OK....that was three questions, but I am getting annoyed.

I don't think I have never seen an engine starting issue that has had more talent and thought expended on it over a longer period of time - with little or no improvement. I am now suspecting that your bike is haunted or possessed by evil spirits - or that the TCI is bad. I will bring along a wooden stake to drive through its heart, just in case.

Back to reality....here's a thought (and you may have already done this....but here goes):
1) unplug both ends of the wiring harness bundle that connects the ignition system components;
2) test each lead for continuity (ohm scale on your multimeter - lowest setting) while having an assistant wiggle the wires around.

For this test, you want to see the needle flip all the way to the right - or read "0" (zero) on a digital meter indicating no resistance and a good solid connection between the two connectors, confirming that you don't have either a bad contact within one of those TCI multi-pin plugs or a bad conductor within the insulation - or both.

While you're doing that (including wiggling the wiring harness around) test between each pin on one of the connectors and all of the other pins on the other connector.

In this case, you are looking for no movement on the needle or "ol" (overload) on a digital meter which would indicate NO connection between the first pin and any of the others. That would confirm that you don't have a pinched wire inside of the insulating tape which is shorting two or more wires together.

For both of these tests, you must unplug both ends of the harness and you have to watch the meter carefully while wiggling the wires, because you are looking for an intermittent / momentary contact or break in contact.

So, all you're going to see is a flicker of the needle or a digit flipping around on the digital meter.

Keep at it bud - this bloody thing WILL run.

Pete

PS - how is the compression? When you kick it, does it resist fairly firmly?
 
MaxPete said:
Dammit Cal - this is getting monotonous - let's get this danged motorcycle running!

I'm comin' over, but I do have two questions:
1) where the heck is Chittenango NY?
2) it it warmer there than it is here in Windsor / Detroit?
3) have you got any BEvERages on hand, or should I bring some?

OK, OK....that was three questions, but I am getting annoyed.

I don't think I have never seen an engine starting issue that has had more talent and thought expended on it over a longer period of time - with little or no improvement. I am now suspecting that your bike is haunted or possessed by evil spirits - or that the TCI is bad. I will bring along a wooden stake to drive through its heart, just in case.

Back to reality....here's a thought (and you may have already done this....but here goes):
1) unplug both ends of the wiring harness bundle that connects the ignition system components;
2) test each lead for continuity (ohm scale on your multimeter - lowest setting) while having an assistant wiggle the wires around.

For this test, you want to see the needle flip all the way to the right - or read "0" (zero) on a digital meter indicating no resistance and a good solid connection between the two connectors, confirming that you don't have either a bad contact within one of those TCI multi-pin plugs or a bad conductor within the insulation - or both.

While you're doing that (including wiggling the wiring harness around) test between each pin on one of the connectors and all of the other pins on the other connector.

In this case, you are looking for no movement on the needle or "ol" (overload) on a digital meter which would indicate NO connection between the first pin and any of the others. That would confirm that you don't have a pinched wire inside of the insulating tape which is shorting two or more wires together.

For both of these tests, you must unplug both ends of the harness and you have to watch the meter carefully while wiggling the wires, because you are looking for an intermittent / momentary contact or break in contact.

So, all you're going to see is a flicker of the needle or a digit flipping around on the digital meter.

Keep at it bud - this bloody thing WILL run.

Pete

PS - how is the compression? When you kick it, does it resist fairly firmly?
Click to expand...

1.) Chittenango NY is east of Syracuse NY about 30 minutes.
2.) It might be a few degrees warmer but sadly not much.
3.) It is stocked and can buy more.

While I am checking everything with the TCI system I will check the continuity of all the lines.

Compression is great even used my compression tester and I forget what the manual said but I am in that range. Nice resistance when I try to kick it

Sadly right now I am in Buffalo at my place and the bike is in my parents garage (Chittenango) because I don't have enough room. So when I go back to see my parents I work on the bike a lot. And once it runs I am taking it everywhere I can!
 
I rented a UHaul bike trailer a couple of weeks back - $15/day.....so cheap, I'm not sure it would be worth buying one.

The only problemo was that it is an open trailer so no security and no protection from crappy weather (of which we both know a lot as northern North Americans...).

Pete
 
Hi Cal: so, it's been about 6 weeks since your last post - how's it going?

Pete
 
Really 6 weeks? Hmmm guess I need to get back to my parents and work on the bike more. I have not touched it since my last posts. I have a bunch of things to do but as you all know life catches up to you sometimes and here I am wishing I had more time to fix the 650. Thanks for checking in. I will keep you guys updated.
 
Cal Schilling said:
Really 6 weeks? Hmmm guess I need to get back to my parents and work on the bike more. I have not touched it since my last posts. I have a bunch of things to do but as you all know life catches up to you sometimes and here I am wishing I had more time to fix the 650. Thanks for checking in. I will keep you guys updated.
Click to expand...

No problemo Cal - spring is coming and I just wanted to make sure that you hadn't pushed the bike off a cliff somewhere!

Cheers,

Pete
 
Heading to my parents this weekend to work on the bike some more. Gotta remember where I left off 100% I am going to make some new grounding wires up to just make sure everything is 200% grounded. Going to go pick up a new battery that I can keep charged as well so that I have a spare for testing. I think the game plan this weekend is to :
A.) Check the coils for proper resistance (I am going to follow what the repair manual says)
B.) Going to try to hook a bottle up to the fuel system and try to force extra fuel in just to see if it is a fuel problem that I am missing. peanut suggested this and I want to just rule it out
C.) Check the High Voltage Leads from the coils to the plugs
D.) Check the pick up coils (According to the manual)

Anything else you guys think I should try let me know.
 
Stick at it Cal and remember the immortal words:

"Illegitimae non carborundum" .....Latin (sort of...) for "don't let the bastard wear you down"

Cheers,
Pete
 

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