Apologies - another electrical question :(

[XSLeo]

The voltage supplied by the reg on the orange wire hooks to the green wire. This voltage isn't really pulsed it's straight DC just the reg turns it on and off as needed. It may look pulsed on the right test equipment.
Some think this voltage gets reduced to around 6 volts when the battery gets charged, It doesn't, just your meter thinks it does.
The reg turns the current flow on/off. When the battery is low the reg keeps this current flow on longer and your meter reads it as 12 volts. This is the average voltage of the on and off cycles.
As the battery voltage increases the reg turns the current on for shorter intervals and off for longer. The meter reads these cycles as 6 volts, the average of the on/off cycles.
If you hooked an oscilloscope to the reg output to the rotor, you would see these cycles as square waves. When the reg turns on the trace rises to 12 volts for a time, then drops back to zero for a time. The on times show as a fast rise, a flat top and a quick drop. The longer the reg has the current on the longer the flat top, and a shorter flat zero line. As the battery charges the 12 flat top gets shorter and the zero line gets longer.
Leo

 

[peanut]

The voltage supplied by the reg on the orange wire hooks to the green wire. This voltage isn't really pulsed it's straight DC just the reg turns it on and off as needed. It may look pulsed on the right test equipment.
Some think this voltage gets reduced to around 6 volts when the battery gets charged, It doesn't, just your meter thinks it does.
The reg turns the current flow on/off. When the battery is low the reg keeps this current flow on longer and your meter reads it as 12 volts. This is the average voltage of the on and off cycles.
As the battery voltage increases the reg turns the current on for shorter intervals and off for longer. The meter reads these cycles as 6 volts, the average of the on/off cycles.
If you hooked an oscilloscope to the reg output to the rotor, you would see these cycles as square waves. When the reg turns on the trace rises to 12 volts for a time, then drops back to zero for a time. The on times show as a fast rise, a flat top and a quick drop. The longer the reg has the current on the longer the flat top, and a shorter flat zero line. As the battery charges the 12 flat top gets shorter and the zero line gets longer.
Leo

thank you Leo I understand how a regulator and rectifer function. What I wasn't sure about is what the function of the green wire and orange wire of the reg rec because mikesxs site isn't functioning .

By pulsed I meant that the regulator turns the power supply to the rotor on and off periodically. Its tempting to try and use one word instead of a descriptive sentence but it relies on the writer and reader having the same understanding of the meaning of the word.

When you say the the orange wire is 'hooked' to the green wire I know that you are referring to the green wire of the stator but it does read a bit ambigulously as my question was about the green wire of the reg/rec not the green wire of the stator

 

[5twins]

The O.P.'s issue seems to be that the combined reg/rec Mike's is now selling has different wire colors than those old diagrams for the old unit they used to sell. Also, he's trying to wire it up like the '80-'83 system, with switched power fed to the inner brush and it's 3 mounting screws changed to nylon. He blows a fuse when he puts the steel screws back in because that shorts out the power he's feeding into the brush. DUH ....

This is such a cluster-fuck. $100+ for a reg/rec unit and you can't even get proper instructions on how to install it, lol. Then there's the fact that you can get the same results using automotive parts for $30 or less. There's no legitimate reason to even buy this unit from Mike's in the first place, unless of course you're looking for an easy way to piss money away, lol.

 

[650Skull]

5T your right. He has changed the wire coloring on the Unit........I made up a diagram based on the pld wires and instructions, (wasted that day), but deleted due to the wire colors change.......... from the pic from Mikes site he has Green Brown Black red and 3 white, used to be Blue orange green red and 3 Yellow......If it gets sorted i will adjust the diagram to suit the new wires.

 

[peanut]

yeah I must admit I nearly choked at the price.
I think you;ve summed this issue up very well.
Its probably about time we produced a simple clear guide to save going through this over and over again

 

[xjwmx]

The current "Installation Instructions" for 24-2089 show same color to same color.

 

[JRay77]

You guys have way better trouble shooting skills than I. Patience for sure. Haha! I've been just tearing it all out and starting over. Ignition, charging system, all electrical.... Wires seem to dry out and crack causing shorts and whatnot (starter heavy gauge wire especially). Then again, I've been getting abused/neglected barn finds. I'm away from the garage. Wish I could post pics of my recent wire job.

 

[xjwmx]

If the colors in the pic of the 24-2089 are right, connection is probably the same as adapting an 80+ reg/rec to a '79. If it fries it's Mike's damn fault so get your money back

 

[peanut]

The current "Installation Instructions" for 24-2089 show same color to same color.

how is that ? there is no Orange wire on a 76-79 XS650 stock stator ..........are you saying that the orange wire is not connected ?
Mikes pdf install guide page has been unobtainable for several days . it would be very helpful if you could post your copy for reference.

post script
What a total mess... .I have just managed to access mikes install guide page and it shows a schematic for a 1981 wiring setup for the pre 79 24-2089?? with presumably isolated stator connections on the brown and green wires but no attached explanation ?

A google search revealed a direct link to a downloadable guide note from our site !? which suggests that the red wire from the 24-2089 reg rec connects to an additional white wire on a stock pre 79 which is clearly a typo

file:///C:/Users/johnny/Downloads/24-2089.pdf

 

[xjwmx]

how is that ?

Maybe I misunderstand, but the pic of the product itself shows 3xW, Bk, G, R, and Br. Same as the instruction diagram they give for it, unless I'm hallucinating liek 4G and his brake light, and same as an '80+.

Therefore, if the pic is an accurate representation of what they send you ( ), hook it up as if you were adapting an '80+ stock unit to a '79.

 

[peanut]

I was just trying to clarify . You stated previously that your diagram showed a colour for colour hookup ........so I was just reiterating my question 'what about the orange wire on Mikes Reg/Rec ? are you saying it should be left unconnected on a pre-79 setup ?

If you look at the instruction sheet I posted it suggests connecting the red wire to an additional white wire on a pre 79 stator . I wasn't aware there was 4x white wires
Its a bloody mess for sure.

 

[650Skull]

If the colors in the pic of the 24-2089 are right, connection is probably the same as adapting an 80+ reg/rec to a '79. If it fries it's Mike's damn fault so get your money back

True........But the op's diagram, as the way he has wired it, has the brown going to the black.......What we really need is a pic of mikes R/R and not just a copy from the site..........Also the op needs to get some info from the seller, (Mikes),

Deleted several posts.........wast of time when an other is not reading the posts and is re-posting over posts and repeating and cluttering up the tread.......Deleted in the interest of the thread. Especially when the information posted is outdated, and new information is required before any real progress can be made

 

[member3480]

You guys are great and that's what I like about this forum everyone jumps in. I have used this reg/rec and this may blow your mind but with the TC Brothers wire kit and this reg/rec its a simple install. I got hung up on the colors and thought it was going to fry some thing but plug and play and it charged and still running. Changed colors again . I think this guy just needs to take out the nylon screws put it back to original and use a TC Brother kit and call it a day. I hate getting these bikes that builders cut off all the original plugs. That's why I started to make idiot proof harnesses. You just hook up whats in front of you period. I too looked at mikes web site and this is a different reg/rec that was sold a year ago. Plugs were all ready attached so this maybe some knockoff but still claims to just plug into original harness and no other changes. I know this guy made his own harness but should still work if installed like stock.
Hey also I wasn't picking on you when I said harsh. This is just always a dead horse when it comes to wiring and I am a old grump too.

 

[member3480]

Here is what TC Brothers has on the one they sell
Heavy duty solid state combined regulator/rectifier unit that replaces the Yamaha OEM regulator AND rectifier on models with seperate mechanical voltage regulator and rectifier (points ignition bikes). Power handling is superior, and the part is designed to be a plug in replacement. We have incorporated a heatsink design that gets rid of internal heat to the housing quickly and efficiently, making for a very reliable unit. This can be used with your stock harness or our chopper wiring harness. No need to modify your harness or unground brushes in your stator for this regulator/rectifier to work JUST PLUG IT IN AND YOU ARE GOOD TO GO!

 

[JRay77]

Be careful if you ever go to the Antigravity (lithium) battery. These are sensitive to high charging voltage. If you decide to go Antigravity, check that the voltage to your standard battery isn’t exceeding the voltage max for the Antigravity. It’s in the installation instruction with the battery. Read this! There is a reg/rec for smaller cell lithium batteries. I would suggest everyone buying this reg/rec from the start. I do not have the part number on hand but I believe it has some kinda shunt (alternate path for excess voltage) it was like $45

 

[JRay77]

One more thing I’ve ran into. If you decide to go without a battery, those black capacitors everyone sells are junk. Well, they can’t handle vibration well. I haven’t tried the Sparx blue one on a spring and yet. I have mine set up were I take my Antigravity battery from bike to bike.

 

[xjwmx]

I was just trying to clarify . You stated previously that your diagram showed a colour for colour hookup ........so I was just reiterating my question 'what about the orange wire on Mikes Reg/Rec ? are you saying it should be left unconnected on a pre-79 setup ?

That was before I realized it was for a '79, (since pic in catalog is something '80+). It sounds to me like Leo knows how to hook up the earlier one with the orange wire, no? Plus the wire translation thing Skull posted.

I don't see what the problem with it is now, unless you have some kind of third version.

 

[peanut]

That was before I realized it was for a '79, (since pic in catalog is something '80+). It sounds to me like Leo knows how to hook up the earlier one with the orange wire, no? Plus the wire translation thing Skull posted.

I don't see what the problem with it is now, unless you have some kind of third version.

well yes you would think it was ok to connect the orange wire and perhaps it is but that is my point in all this . Why would anyone connect an orange wire to a green wire without a clear wiring diagram and a complete understanding of how exactly the regulator functions and is wired internally ? It has cost over $100 after all.

I'm sure at some point in time a mikes reg /rec did indeed have the orange wire connected to the stators green wire but these appear to be a new batch and without a wiring diagram or install instructions being available I for one would never just randomly connect different coloured , or similar coloured wires together for that matter without being confident of what I was connecting to what in a sealed box.

I suspect this reg/rec is simply a bog standard generic digital combined regulator/rectifier that could be fitted to a whole raft of motorcycles provided it is wired up correctly .

 

[xjwmx]

You need to put up a picture of what you have in your hands.

Barring that, I put up this post of the internals (of an 80+) and you can use a meter to sleuth out some of it.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/using-stock-rectifier-with-vr38sb-regulator.52321/#post-552935

You're fortunate that if you do hook it up wrong, it won't explode in a huge electrical fireball. One time I followed the diagram to hook up a big electric motor. It went fine. Unknown to me, being the new guy, the color coding in the diagram was very unconventional, appearing to be backwards or short-circuited actually. The next one that got hooked up got all kinds of attention first, and I was like guys it worked as it's drawn...

 

[650Skull]

An update and to finish off the thread
From the PM conversation, (copy and pasted), we had relating to this thread

h8monday XS650 Member
Just an update and thanks to everybody the problem is solved. Got home late last night and jumped on it first thing this morning. As I suspected from Skulls provided diagram, I had power going to both brushes. Grounded the appropriate brush and voila things charging with no problems. Serious thank you to everybody. I knew it was something simple and stupid that I did and sure enough, a week of not messing with it and the expertise on the board and all is good.

The information in the thread below, is the correct procedure for wiring a 70-79 Solid State Reg/Rect for all points models XS650. The thread below was used to wire in the SS Reg/Rect
http://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-in-a-70-79-combined-reg-rect-to-a-points-model-xs650.52339/