Snap
XS650 Member
Could someone enlighten me on why you would put baking soda in the barrel and run the engine ???
I must be missing something , never heard of that
I must be missing something , never heard of that
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Baking Soda
- Thread starter Snap
- Start date
It will seat the rings......I have done it may times with success...... I explained the process in another post.......it is for when the rings don't seat....it won't fix a wore out engine it just deglazes the cylinders ....I don't plan on arguing the pros and cons of the process though...lastly you don't put the baking soda in the intake...it has to go in the spark plug hole (1 level teaspoon) or it will crap up and stick to the backside of the valves......not good there...........
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=829
xsjohn
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=829
xsjohn
Snap
XS650 Member
Thanks John 
Thanks for the tip John. Do you think it's a good idea to do this for an engine that didn't run for a long time ?
I would only do it if I put mine together (all parts being correct) and the rings failed to seat.........the baking soda will rough the wall just a bit to let that happen.....if it has sat for a long time I would use some oil in there.....before I even turned it over once.......smoothing the edge of used rings with some 320 to me is a must.....I do it to new rings too........have been for 40 years and I can't remember wearing a set of rings out......for that matter I always dimple the piston skirts........can't remember wearing one of them out eather...so be it for me.............
xsjohn
xsjohn
Sundie
Jabroni
what does "dimple the piston skirts" mean?
Any connection between smoothing the edge of new rings and needing to use baking soda to deglaze?
No.......not that I have found.........started smoothing the edges 40+ years ago.......the last time I had to use soda was because I just very lightly honed.....too light obviously ....Honing to me is like purposely wearing the cylinder so for me it's easy to under do it...............
Here is the piston divot thing....small drill like an 1/8" and shallow cuts ....good to balance the heavier piston to the lighter one by removing some of the material from the heavier one.........gram scale.....
xsjohn
Here is the piston divot thing....small drill like an 1/8" and shallow cuts ....good to balance the heavier piston to the lighter one by removing some of the material from the heavier one.........gram scale.....
xsjohn
Attachments
Sundie
Jabroni
no, i'd think if anything, there'd be less need. You deburr the rings so they don't scratch up and down the cylinder wall. But if you don't deglaze the cylinder wall enough, you won't get the slight wear the rings need to seat (wear in).
Maybe I'm just making this all up in my head, but if you don't hone enough, the walls are too smooth and your rings don't seat well. Conversely, if you hone just the right amount, but smooth the edge of your rings, your rings and cylinders might glaze over before they seat. Seems like you need the correct amount of honing and correct edge on the rings to get both to "mate together" before they are too smooth. That's what I was saying above, maybe you honed the right amount, but because you smoothed the rings they both polished up before they mated perfectly, thus needing the baking soda to roughen everything up to have more "wear together" time.
After thinking about this some more, I think I get where I misunderstood you. I though you were smoothing the entire edge of the ring. Like polishing it. Sundie's comment makes me now realize you might be talking about the top and bottom of the edge, and not the vertical part of the ring edge. Is that what you mean by smoothing the edges?
So the point of "smoothing the edge of used rings with some 320 (and) to new rings too" is for what purpose?
A) To prevent vertical scratches in the cylinders
B) To pre-polish the edge so it wears less on break in
C) To pre-polish the edge so they last longer
D) To roughen up the edge on old rings to allow them wear with the cylinders and mate
E) To be different
F) Other, explain:
A) To prevent vertical scratches in the cylinders
B) To pre-polish the edge so it wears less on break in
C) To pre-polish the edge so they last longer
D) To roughen up the edge on old rings to allow them wear with the cylinders and mate
E) To be different
F) Other, explain:
To keep the sharp edge from contacting the cylinder wall.....pistons do rock slightly...
Am I under arrest..........will the 5th admendment work in my case.....that's peoples choice if they do it or not.........but I'll easily get 100,000+ from my pistons and rings.....already 76+ with great compression.......think it's 140 but considering that I went to 8-1 compression that is decent...........was 150 at 60 thou when I lowered it.......and that was the best thing I have ever did to it.....more than a pleasure to ride now....and everyone thinks I'm crazy for doing that.....little do they really know.......
Oh and raising the head also puts a used chain back to factory adjustment specs......and now looking back I can see that most chains are discarded for being loose when the are really just broke in.......haven't adujusted my used DID that already had 35 thousand on it at 65 thou when I put the 8-1 on....hasn't needed adjustment in almost 10 thou....well maybe a little 1/8 tweek last spring ...........this spring no adjustment needed...........think that since the engine runs so much smoother at 8-1 it's way easier on chains..was a pleasant suprise and another benifit.......
xsjohn
Am I under arrest..........will the 5th admendment work in my case.....that's peoples choice if they do it or not.........but I'll easily get 100,000+ from my pistons and rings.....already 76+ with great compression.......think it's 140 but considering that I went to 8-1 compression that is decent...........was 150 at 60 thou when I lowered it.......and that was the best thing I have ever did to it.....more than a pleasure to ride now....and everyone thinks I'm crazy for doing that.....little do they really know.......
Oh and raising the head also puts a used chain back to factory adjustment specs......and now looking back I can see that most chains are discarded for being loose when the are really just broke in.......haven't adujusted my used DID that already had 35 thousand on it at 65 thou when I put the 8-1 on....hasn't needed adjustment in almost 10 thou....well maybe a little 1/8 tweek last spring ...........this spring no adjustment needed...........think that since the engine runs so much smoother at 8-1 it's way easier on chains..was a pleasant suprise and another benifit.......
xsjohn
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haha! you forgot to say F) other!!!
Just trying to get more info on this taking the edge off the rings concept to try and understand it. That is all, nothing more. Well, I lied.. I'm also trying to figure out if too much "pre-treating" of the rings might be the cause of needing to use baking soda in the first place. But it sounds like in your case, probably not as 320 grit isn't really that fine and wouldn't polish the ring edges like I was thinking before. A lot of this has to do with break-in anyway and might not have anything to do with what you do to the rings before you put them in. I think when it comes down to it, if you build an engine and the rings don't seat well (for whatever reason, honing, ring treatment, break in procedures, etc), you're saying baking soda might do the trick to allow for another "mating session".
Just trying to get more info on this taking the edge off the rings concept to try and understand it. That is all, nothing more. Well, I lied.. I'm also trying to figure out if too much "pre-treating" of the rings might be the cause of needing to use baking soda in the first place. But it sounds like in your case, probably not as 320 grit isn't really that fine and wouldn't polish the ring edges like I was thinking before. A lot of this has to do with break-in anyway and might not have anything to do with what you do to the rings before you put them in. I think when it comes down to it, if you build an engine and the rings don't seat well (for whatever reason, honing, ring treatment, break in procedures, etc), you're saying baking soda might do the trick to allow for another "mating session".
Sundie
Jabroni
well, for better or worse, i did this this evening. I'll let you know how it turns out.
John, i'll tell you right now, i'll not blame you if it doesn't work. The principle is sound. Just letting you know, everything has gone exactly how you described (thanks for warning about the odd knocking noise initially - it is quite startling), so we'll see how it goes.
John, i'll tell you right now, i'll not blame you if it doesn't work. The principle is sound. Just letting you know, everything has gone exactly how you described (thanks for warning about the odd knocking noise initially - it is quite startling), so we'll see how it goes.
