Copper dust on oil filter ?

[Rickrod3]

High to all:

I have a 79SF.
Last time I changed the oil I noticed what looked like copper dust in the oil and on the filter.

http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rickrod3/?action=view&current=DSCF2878.jpg

What is wearing?

Should I stop running the engine?

Thanks in advance
Rick

 

[xsjohn]

Trying to think.......the rods have a copper coat.......thinking that 1st gear wheel has a copper bushing..............but my pea brain is thinking the pushrod bushing........that would be easy to check if it wobbled too much sideways...........I usually see a faint copper sheen on top of the oil in the pan when I change it.....never saw visable copper on a filter though....I think the faint copper sheen from normal wear would pass through the porus stock filter and not be trapped.....and maybe everything else I mentioned above.....?

 

[angus67]

I would think that it is probably the bronze bushings in between the counterweight and the rods on the crank. I wouldnt run it. does it knoxk at all? I dont know for sure if thats the only place were there is bronze on these bikes other than the swing arm, but i'm sure one of the knowledgeable people here will be gald to help.
Until then , I would not run it.

 

[Rickrod3]

It does not knock runs pretty good but: does use a lot of oil.

Oil consumption is why I was planning a top end rebuild.
From the possible copper parts bearing and such it is telling me I need to go deeper.

Thanks

 

[xsjohn]

Angus.......that sounds reasonable.....forgot about those on the crank......not sure I ever saw one of those come apart.....unless maybe the needle bearing cage is starting to go and tearing it up.....would think one would hear something odd...Rick I would be interested to see what you find..........

xsjohn

 

[Rickrod3]

It may be a while but; I'll post again after I pull it apart.


Rick

 

[angus67]

oh jesus, john, I had no ideas other than the one I posted. I know nothing compared to you gurus here. Im just a new guy, trying his hand at a machine.
I has just hoping to stop him from starting it if it was something as serious as those bronze bushings on the crank/rods. I do hope its something as simple as the push rod bushing.
Does your pushrod bushing have alot of 'wiggle'?

 

[xsjohn]

It's anyones guess angus....ad as a guess you might be right...and no my push rod doesn't wobble.......I dimpled the ends of the rods so the rod self stabilizes when I grab the clutch.......

xsjohn

 

[Rickrod3]

I guess I'll pull the left cover and check the push rod.
The clutch was acting up a little.
Was working fine, got in a traffic jam and after that seemed like it would not disengage fully even the next day.
Could that be a symptom?

Thanks
Rick

 

[angus67]

not your pushrod,john...rickrod;s pushrod!!

 

[Rickrod3]

Trying to think.......the rods have a copper coat.......thinking that 1st gear wheel has a copper bushing..............but my pea brain is thinking the pushrod bushing........that would be easy to check if it wobbled too much sideways...........I usually see a faint copper sheen on top of the oil in the pan when I change it.....never saw visable copper on a filter though....I think the faint copper sheen from normal wear would pass through the porus stock filter and not be trapped.....and maybe everything else I mentioned above.....?

Hey John and all:

Its been a while but I think I would like to take a stab at this.
The lower clutch adjuster does wobble. Is this what you are talking about?
I looked in my Haynes manual for a for the push rod bushing and under the clutch outer drum the manual shows slide shim thrust washer and a bearing sleeve. Am I looking in the right place?

TIA
Rick

 

[XSLeo]

I think the copper dust is from the sump filter.
When the screen breaks the bits of screen get ground up in the oil pump. This ground up brass screen is the copper dust you are finding.
Check your sump filter. If it has parts missing you found them.

 

[Rickrod3]

I'm finally getting back to this and since I last posted I did discover that the push rod bushing was worn and the seal also leaked. I got around to replacing those parts this week. I went with the one piece rod. Took a short ride and, seeems to be working fine.

I pulled the sump filter and it was in tack. I replaced it 3 seasons ago when I got the bike. It was torn.

I was wondering my clutch has slipped from time to time so I know it has worn. Where does the wear show up?
Has anyone noticed or was able to identify anything in the oil, filter or sump which came from the clutch?
BTW.
Engine has no knocks or noises I looked up the best I could at the crank though the sump plate did not see any of particles in question.
Your thoughts would be apprieciated.
Rick

 

[XSLeo]

The clutch will wear on the fiber plates, the steels being harder don't wear as much. I have pulled a few clutches apart and most have no measurable wear. One was worn a bit, maybe half way down. It still worked. The fiber as it wears will just make the oil dark.
What oil are you using? This can cause slipping. Motorcycle specific oil has a JASO MA rating, some deisel oils have this rating, some don't. This rating means the oil has been tested and approved for wet clutches. An oil without this rating maybe ok to use, it may let the clutch slip.
Adjusting the cable just a bit tight can cause slipping to.
I would start with adjusting the clutch and cable. If this don't help and the oil is ok then you may need to tear the clutch apart and clean and measure the plates. Roughing up the fiber and steel plates with 80 or 100 grit sandpaper will help a bit, make them grippier.
Making sure the clutch is assembled correctly with the hole in the edge of the pressure plate lined up with the dimple on the hub. See the dimple through the hole. Maybe installing heavier springs.
If it still slips with all this then maybe you need new fiber plates. You can get the stock plates from the dealer they used the same plate in many bikes. Up to 2007 I think and on bikes like the 1700 cc road sofas.