Got stranded for the first time yesterday (ever), baffled yet again, help???

Splexin

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Okay, so last week was my headache trying to get the headlight to come on when it was just the bulb burned out! I'm hoping this issue is as simple to fix! :laugh: I rarely if ever have any problems with this machine, but when I get the occasional minor issue I tend to go overkill and replace parts rather than fix existing ones :bike:

To bring you up to speed, within the last few weeks I have replaced:
Wiring harness (OEM), 1980 Special II
Clutch side control (lights, horn, etc) switch (OEM)
Headlight (direct replacement, sealed beam halogen)

A few weeks before that I ran Seafoam through the carbs and replaced the rear tire, rear sprocket, and rear drive chain. (Mentioned simply for reference)

Up until yesterday I was very happy....engine running smoothly (great gas mileage, fast acceleration), head/tail/brake lights BRIGHT, blinkers bright and steady, and horn blowing. I thought I had it made! :laugh:

Then, yesterday I was on the highway and something very unusual happened that I had not experienced before. My bike started to jerk two-step whenever I changed lanes, and for the first leg of my trip I thought it was from the gasoline sloshing in the tank and away from the petcock (tank was neither full nor very low at the time). Something else that I noticed was the red brake-light indicator was lit (sometimes fading on and off, but fully lit at times).

Things got worse on the way home (this trek was about 60 miles roundtrip). I discovered that every time I turned on my blinker, the engine would jerk. Pretty soon the blinker indicator became so dim that I could not even see it. Again, that little red light stayed on. Shortly thereafter my bike just died, zero power! I pulled to the shoulder on the highway and had to call AAA to take me home. The ignition wouldn't even buzz when I tried to restart it, and even the green neutral light wouldn't show. Basically, dead.

I knew I didn't run out of gas, so my next and most logical guess was something electrical (again!). When I got home the battery read about 10 volts. I charged it and left it unplugged from the harness overnight to see if it would hold a charge. When I checked it this morning it read 13 volts. So indeed it held the charge.

I reconnected everything and started the bike. About 12.37 volts at idle after a few mins. Revving to 3000 RPM registered only 12.40 volts, leading me to believe it is not charging. (After I installed the new harness a few weeks ago I tested voltage and it jumped, indicating charging. So this is recent problem.)

After 10-15 minute stop/go ride the voltage read 12.28 volts. But 3 hours after I shut off the bike, voltage was back to 12.72 volts.

A couple things:
The battery is only a few months old so I doubt it's the problem.
I replaced the alternator brushes at the same time as the battery.
Fuses were not blown and box is brand new (along with rest of wiring harness).
Wiring harness, again, brand new and all connections tight.
Alternator passed the "slap" test and the magnetic effect was not weak.
Headlight seems to get slightly brighter/dimmer when revving, hard to tell with new bulb.
Both brake light and tail light work fine, which makes me suspicious about the red indicator lighting up for no reason. Grounding issue???

I have original TCI ignition and alternator and stator. RLU and safety relay (headlight portion) were bypassed previously but never caused a problem (again, just for reference). Don't think ignition coil is the problem as it runs fine when charged, maybe I'm wrong. I did not test the regulator because I assumed that passing slap test meant it's fine. I really have no idea what else it could be. Ideas??

I have been very specific here because I don't want to throw off anybody and get canned answers. Thanks.
 
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After you installed the new harness you said the voltage jumped when checked. How high did it go then? The voltage readings you have now are too low. At 3k it should be 14 or so. Time to go to the charging troubleshooting guide and start checking everything step by step.
 
After you installed the new harness you said the voltage jumped when checked. How high did it go then? The voltage readings you have now are too low. At 3k it should be 14 or so. Time to go to the charging troubleshooting guide and start checking everything step by step.

Yes, I suspected they are are below norm. It jumped to high 13s (80s-90s) during last success. I've been reading the troubleshooting guide and stopped after the slap test. I think it might be a grounding issue but maybe it's something completely different.
 
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it can pass a slap test and still the rotor coud be bad. Is it a rotor you got of ebay? could be a bad rewind if so. mine shows 5.5 ohms. charges great. also, chech voltage reg. And while your at it, check the stator. fU$#k-check it all. but start at the rotor.
 
it can pass a slap test and still the rotor coud be bad. Is it a rotor you got of ebay? could be a bad rewind if so. mine shows 5.5 ohms. charges great. also, chech voltage reg. And while your at it, check the stator. fU$#k-check it all. but start at the rotor.

No, I haven't replaced the rotor, it's likely original and that might be the problem. Disassembling the bike this weekend to double-check on my ground theory first, but yeah checking the rotor and stator are on my list. Voltage regulator seems fine, not really sure? Volts don't move regardless if it's plugged in or not :confused: I tried the jumping suggested in the charge guide but it didn't do anything :shrug: :laugh:
 
Sounds like a bad ground to me.

I had the same issues this week..Thought it was bad gas or something plugging my carbs, so I tore em apart and they looked totally fine.

After putting the carbs back on, she fired right up and I went for a ride (with all my tools and a spare battery) and no issues.

The next day I pop down 5 blocks to get something from the shops(didnt bring me tools), and when I go to fire the bike up (in front of a guy who wanted to hear the bike purr no less!) it was completely dead.

After fucking about checking everything over, I realized the soldered joint for my ground had popped off underneath the heat wrap around it. So It was not visible untill i gave it a yank.
 
Sounds like a bad ground to me.

Thought it was bad gas or something plugging my carbs, so I tore em apart and they looked totally fine.

The guy who towed me thought the same thing, possibly clogged fuel filter. But my carbs and fuel line are clean. After reading your reply and other posts on the forum leads me to believe it's a bad ground.....especially since just a week or so ago I was up and running and charging fine. It didn't start acting finicky until I got out on the highway, maybe it jiggled a connection loose. Then again, I thought my headlight was fine, the last thing to go bad, but it turned out to be the one and only thing that was bad!!! :doh: :laugh:

Thanks for your response, hopefully I fix this soon. If it's not the ground it probably is the rotor
 
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Try running a battery ground directly to the engine or to the ground wire running through the harness. So much of the XS is rubber mounted that the bikes may suffer from inconsistant grounds. It happened to me.

Tom
 
Have seen this before in my younger days as a dealer mechanic. Replace the brushes. The brake light gave it away. I've seen them not burn while on the center stand and put them on side stand and it comes on when brushes fall away from rotor.
Hope this helps.
 
I was about to test my rotor but noticed that the brushes seem to be 'digging' into the rotor rings like fingernails on chalkboard........is this normal????? :eek:
P1000873.jpg
 
looks like you found your problem

Does this mean my rotor is bad? Or just reset the brushes?

Any particular route I should go about resolving this, i.e. just upgrading to PMA/Pamco instead of replacing?

Sorry, I'm not a XS650 guru :laugh:
 
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That looks bad. One of the screws that hold your brushes must be way to long. Only way you'll know if the rotor is still usable is to sand down the gouges and try it again. You may have enough slip ring left to make it work. Hope this helps.
 
Well, one of my alternator brushes was almost completely disintegrated, even to the point of the spring being affected! :wtf:

The other brush was fine so I assume that the bad one must have gotten stuck and filed down by the constant pressure against the rotor. Inner ring of rotor is fine but the outside one is dug too deep to salvage. I was thinking of just upgrading to PMA/Pamco but Mikes is out of stock on Pamcos (again) for my model. My current ignition system is fine though so new rotor it is! :thumbsup:

Thanks everyone for your help and input. I'm anxious to get this resolved and back on the road again.
 
GAH!!!! I swear I am ready to douse this bike in gasoline and light it on fire :banghead:

Installed BRAND NEW alternator rotor AND complete new stator assembly with new brushes. Wired everything back up, check all connections etc. Everything seems fine and ready to go.

I start up the bike. Running great. Throttle response is good. Headlamp hi-lo, horn, blinkers, stationary and brake light......ALL bright, everything electronic working as it should!!!!

I throw on the voltmeter, rev it up and volts don't change!!!!! :banghead:

Oh and that f***in' RED BRAKE INDICATOR LIGHT came on again!

I really don't understand the problem, I thought the brushes dragging the rotor was it but guess not the whole issue :shrug:

Obviously not charging but why???? Everything was connected properly, I double checked. I've replaced virtually everything (wiring harness, complete alternator) except the voltage regulator. Is that it??? Someone psychic please tell me. I tried the regulator bypass last go around and it didn't do any good. Bad ground?? :doh: :laugh:

Edit: Tested ground
The bad ground was from the engine to the frame, believe it or not. The remedy was to make a ground cable up & bolt it to the cam chain adjuster bolt & the other end on the frame where the negative battery cable bolt's to.
Okay I tried this to see if the ground was my problem and it made the red indicator light go off but then it came back on. Still no charging. I guess this just leaves the voltage regulator????

I just don't want to shell out more money for a regulator if that isn't the problem.....I read another thread where a guy with issue similar to mine replaced the reg. and it didn't change anything.
 
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Did you check to see if you had the wrong length screw?

Can you elaborate? Are you talking about the brushes?

I just bought a complete new stator assembly from Mikes which had the brushes pre-installed. Rotor/stator appear to be functioning fine while the bike is running, the brushes leave a fine carbon dust on the rotor but no scratching etc like seen in the old one.

I really feel like I'm losing my mind :laugh: The alternator passes the 'slap' test with flying colors, magnetism is very strong. But the wording in the Charging System Guide makes it sound like this test also verifies the Regulator is working properly. But that's the only part left I haven't replaced brand new in the entire electrical system!!! :yikes: So is it the culprit or not is what I'm wondering :wtf:

I just have a hunch I'm going to buy a new one and then that doesn't fix the problem either, or at least that's what I'm afraid of. Just like I forked out $300 for new rotor and stator and problem still exists. I've searched these forums more than Google and can't get a straight answer.

Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate
 
Since you replaced every part new but the regulator. The old rotor damage was caused by putting the wrong screw in the brush holder just checking. Since you still have the old parts check them for me just curious. Not an electrical expert here. You could have burnt out something not shure what.
 
The old rotor damage was caused by putting the wrong screw in the brush holder just checking. Since you still have the old parts check them for me just curious.
No, the old rotor damage was caused by the brush getting stuck and scraping the rotor, again like fingernails on a chalkboard. When I replaced the brushes I replaced the brush holder. The screws I used were the same length and right size.
 
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