Got stranded for the first time yesterday (ever), baffled yet again, help???

[retiredgentleman]

No voltage on the yellow wire with engine idling is a bad sign for sure. There should be about 7 volts DC or 14 volts AC, when measured from ground.

With engine idling, you need to measure AC voltage across any 2 pairs of the 3 white wires that come from the alternator stator. Measure all 3 combinations. 12.5 to 13 volts AC is normal.

Stator is looking suspect. If you don't get proper AC voltage, next step is to measure the resistance (unplug the connector) between the 3 white wires (stator windings)...........depending on what meter you have, should read about 0.5 ohms to 1.2 ohms. Also measure resistance from any white wire to ground (yellow wire must be disconnected for this test).................should be very high resistance.

 

[Splexin]

Yes no voltage at yellow wire.....
Also not getting a reading on AC voltage......

Resistance of leads touched is about 0.4. Resistance between white wires hovers about 0.9. White to ground only measures about 0.4 total.

My battery on the tester is really low, could that be affecting my results? I'm not very good at this testing stuff.

I've heard that stators rarely ever go out, so what are the chances of a brand new one being defective??? I really hope it's not the stator because MIKES won't accept returns on electrical items!!!

I do still have my old stator, guess I could plug it up and see if it works.....but since the problem I am experiencing was previous to replacing the stator it might not do any good.

P.S. I took off all the wiring and plugged up only the essentials and the red light doesn't come on (it is plugged into the harness however). Got excited at first, but bike still isn't charging.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Yes no voltage at yellow wire.....
Also not getting a reading on AC voltage......

Resistance of leads touched is about 0.4. Resistance between white wires hovers about 0.9. White to ground only measures about 0.4 total.

My battery on the tester is really low, could that be affecting my results? I'm not very good at this testing stuff.

I've heard that stators rarely ever go out, so what are the chances of a brand new one being defective???

I do still have my old stator, guess I could plug it up and see if it works.....but since the problem I am experiencing was previous to replacing the stator it might not do any good.

White to ground at 0.4 ohms...................bad news, that means the stator windings are grounded. You can't develop any voltage when the stator is grounded. Where was that stator bought? Is there a warranty?

 

[Splexin]

White to ground at 0.4 ohms...................bad news, that means the stator windings are grounded. You can't develop any voltage when the stator is grounded. Where was that stator bought? Is there a warranty?

MIKES fml.......and they won't accept returns on electrical items!!!! So if the stator is fault here then that's just dandy. Not only did they send me the wrong item the first time, when they did send the right item, it was bad. $200 down the toilet. Would've been better off buying on eBay.

Edit: I tested white to ground again and it's not stable, keeps jumping to 1.5. Think I will get a new battery for the tester before making a verdict. Also, is it possible to test stator off the bike, i.e. so I can test my old one???

 

[Splexin]

You can't develop any voltage when the stator is grounded.

Is there a fix for this???? I can't fork out another $200 for a damn stator. Can it be repaired if indeed it is grounding out?

 

[retiredgentleman]

MIKES fml.......and they won't accept returns on electrical items!!!! So if the stator is fault here then that's just dandy. Not only did they send me the wrong item the first time, when they did send the right item, it was bad. $200 down the toilet. Would've been better off buying on eBay.

Edit: I tested white to ground again and it's not stable, keeps jumping to 1.5. Think I will get a new battery for the tester before making a verdict. Also, is it possible to test stator off the bike, i.e. so I can test my old one???

0.4 or 1.5, is just the variation in resistance for your probes and how well you are making contact with pins, etc. The reading from the stator windings to ground (stator frame) needs be very high, i.e. 100K ohms or greater.

Yes, you can test the stator off the bike on the bench. If the stator is shorted to ground, that means the windings are touching bare metal on the stator frame. Measure resistance from any white wire to the stator frame. Have a look at the wires as they pass through the stator frame, in case a wire's insulation has worn through and is now bare.

 

[peanut]

I know you are not going to appreciate this but the way that you have gone about this is wrong and i'm afraid quite typical. Bolting on new parts at ramdom until something starts working again.

If you can't systematically fault find and test your charging system yourself why don't you take it to an automotive electrical engineer ?

He/She will test your bike in 5 x minutes flat and identify the fault/s .....
What is that going to cost to know exactly what is at fault ? surely less than all the new parts you've bought.

Bought new regulator but problem not fixed. I have officially replaced the ENTIRE electrical system

I also got a new (used) safety relay since my other one was bypassed (testing another theory). This is where I am puzzled especially: when I turn the key, the headlight comes on. Now, if I recall the headlight should not come on until the bike has started (unless you bypass the safety relay, which has not been done to my latest one). Additionally, that red brake check light comes on immediately and stays on, key on to key off. Brake light is fine.

So what's going on? Any wiring gurus?

For updated reference:

• Brand new OEM ignition switch
• Brand clutch-side control switch
• Brand new OEM alternator rotor
• Brand new OEM regulator/rectifier
• Brand new sealed-beam headlight bulb
• Brand new OEM wiring harness w/fuse box
• Brand new OEM alternator stator w/brushes
• New/Used tested and working safety relay (unmodified)
• AGM battery less than 6 months old, working fine and holds charge

Previous to the "breakdown" NEVER had any issues whatsoever with charging.

 

[Splexin]

I know you are not going to appreciate this but the way that you have gone about this is wrong and i'm afraid quite typical. Bolting on new parts at ramdom until something starts working again.

If you can't systematically fault find and test your charging system yourself why don't you take it to an automotive electrical engineer ?

He/She will test your bike in 5 x minutes flat and identify the fault/s .....
What is that going to cost to know exactly what is at fault ? surely less than all the new parts you've bought.

Yeah, I know it seems typical but I'm not a complete ignoramus. I don't just randomly throw on parts before diagnosing the problem. The first thing I did was come here and go through the charging guide

Buying the new wiring harness was already in my plans since the old one was on the hilt. Headlamp bulb was burned out, so that was replaced for obvious reasons. Clutch-side switch wasn't required since I had a perfectly good aftermarket one. But connections didn't fit stock harness snug so I decided to get OEM. Rotor was replaced for obvious reasons (pictures tells it all). Stator was working previous to my rotor getting destroyed; however, it was the original and I decided to hit two birds with one stone. Plus the brushes came pre-installed on the new one and those are always a PITA for me to get set correctly

I replaced safety relay, again because several threads addressed the issue and my symptoms were very similar. Regulator was replaced because that seemed to be the only logical explanation for the issue remaining. I read MANY other threads and they all indicated regulator was bad. Also, I tested the reg and wasn't getting proper readings, not sure if I mentioned that.

All of these parts would have to be replaced eventually anyway. Mostly this whole ordeal has riled me up because I was supposed to go on a road trip and then this happened and Mikes sent the wrong part so I had to rent a car ($200). What I actually really wanted to do was get PMA and Pamco but Mikes was out of stock at the time.

Go to mechanic? Around here? That's a joke because the mechanics around here told me I needed a damaged oil pan replaced when it was perfectly intact. Most of the bike mechs won't work on old bikes and the ones that do charge about $100/hr to tell me the same stuff I read on here. No thanks.

I know I seem like a whiny amateur but I just get frustrated easily and it doesn't help to have other pressures that seem to pile at the same time the bike goes down.

 

[peanut]

sorry I did'nt mean to be critical and I can see now that most of your new parts were planned investments anyway. Its just that I see this on one of the Porsche forums because of the complexity of the Bosch fuel and ignition management systems. The majority of mechanics haven't a clue so just bolt on new parts until something works lol.

The charging system isn't too complicated on our bikes and it really is worth learning everthing we can about how it works because it makes it so much easier to diagnose faults .

have you got a good electrical schematic for your year ? and have you found any good testing guides yet ? There are some very good ones on youtube surprisingly enough.

By the time you have got the bike running again you'll be a guru

ps sorry to hear you missed your road trip. I'm really looking forward to my first when I finally get my engine rebuilt.

 

[Splexin]

sorry I did'nt mean to be critical and I can see now that most of your new parts were planned investments anyway. Its just that I see this on one of the Porsche forums because of the complexity of the Bosch fuel and ignition management systems. The majority of mechanics haven't a clue so just bolt on new parts until something works lol.

The charging system isn't too complicated on our bikes and it really is worth learning everthing we can about how it works because it makes it so much easier to diagnose faults .

have you got a good electrical schematic for your year ? and have you found any good testing guides yet ? There are some very good ones on youtube surprisingly enough.

By the time you have got the bike running again you'll be a guru

Yeah I understand, I know a few people who think there is always an easy fix. I admit that I like to take the simplest route (which is usually replacing parts), but I usually try to test things before replacing (VOM battery dead from 1 day use ) to save a dime and time in the long run.

There is tons of info on the electronics for this bike and it's just a matter of narrowing down the problem. I really thought it was a grounding issue with the bike but after retiredgentleman's response I think the grounding issue is with the stator. What I'm going to do is just start from scratch as far as the diagnostics and determine if my old stator is bad then compare it to the new one.

I am pretty sure now that my initial charging issues were caused by the shot rotor, so what may have happened is that I replaced rotor AND the stator but the new stator was defective, hence continuing error with the charging system. Regulator was weak and original but it does not seem to have been the root issue here.

Yeah, I do have to say this bike is very simple and easy to work on and not too complex which suits my level of expertise. I will get to the bottom of this sooner or later, grunts and curses will get me there

 

[Splexin]

Yes, you can test the stator off the bike on the bench. If the stator is shorted to ground, that means the windings are touching bare metal on the stator frame. Measure resistance from any white wire to the stator frame. Have a look at the wires as they pass through the stator frame, in case a wire's insulation has worn through and is now bare.

You're not going to believe this, but I think I found the stator's issue!!!!

When I got my new stator I kept the screws from the old one (new one didn't come with any), including the screws for the TCI pickup. I naturally assumed those that would work for the original would work for an OEM. Well apparently, one is a little too long. You can see in the picture it actually carved a little screw shape in the stator frame, but what's really important is that the end of the screw actually pushed into the winding.

Sorry for fuzzy picture but camera won't zoom any closer without distorting everything.

Is this a terrible thing? I mean, the individual strand of the winding doesn't look punctured through but the screw did push into it. This was the only issue I found in the windings, although it is difficult to see the frontal windings because of the housing.

Obviously I need a shorter screw

 

[rebel542]

remove the screw and test all 3 white wires to ground. if it dont show a short to ground and you have the proper resistance between the 3 whites, put a drop of 5 minute epoxy on the damage and go for it.

 

[retiredgentleman]

You're not going to believe this, but I think I found the stator's issue!!!!

When I got my new stator I kept the screws from the old one (new one didn't come with any), including the screws for the TCI pickup. I naturally assumed those that would work for the original would work for an OEM. Well apparently, one is a little too long. You can see in the picture it actually carved a little screw shape in the stator frame, but what's really important is that the end of the screw actually pushed into the winding.

Sorry for fuzzy picture but camera won't zoom any closer without distorting everything.

Is this a terrible thing? I mean, the individual strand of the winding doesn't look punctured through but the screw did push into it. This was the only issue I found in the windings, although it is difficult to see the frontal windings because of the housing.

Obviously I need a shorter screw

Sometimes it the little things that cause grief. Anytime you use metal (such as screws) around electrical wiring, you have to be sure they cannot contact each other.

If the stator wire is not severed, then try using some epoxy. Put the epoxy around the damaged area, to replace the damaged insulation. Measure the resistance of all 3 white wires, to confirm they are all the same. Last but not least, confirm the stator resistance is now very high when measured to the stator frame.

Good detective work, finding the fault.

 

[Splexin]

White wire resistance is same across all 3 wires.

Stator to frame resistance.....I have never quite figured that out. My old stator which I am pretty sure is not bad, registers the same as this one and it's nowhere near "high" as you say it should be. I may be doing it wrong.

I am having a hard time determining if the windings are touching the housing, I think the screw may have mushed it against the body but can't tell.

Anyway, I hooked it up and still not charging; however, I now have voltage from the yellow wire. What's odd though is I am getting voltage even with bike off and key off. About 5 DC the first time I measured, now it's between 3 and 4, doesn't seem to change much when bike is running.

Next I am going to test AC at running

Edit: no readings for AC I swear this is not my forte at all

Decided to throw on my old stator and try it but bike won't even start. Keeps blowing main fuse

 

[retiredgentleman]

White wire resistance is same across all 3 wires.

Stator to frame resistance.....I have never quite figured that out. My old stator which I am pretty sure is not bad, registers the same as this one and it's nowhere near "high" as you say it should be. I may be doing it wrong.

I am having a hard time determining if the windings are touching the housing, I think the screw may have mushed it against the body but can't tell.

Anyway, I hooked it up and still not charging; however, I now have voltage from the yellow wire. What's odd though is I am getting voltage even with bike off and key off. About 5 DC the first time I measured, now it's between 3 and 4, doesn't seem to change much when bike is running.

Next I am going to test AC at running

Edit: no readings for AC I swear this is not my forte at all

Decided to throw on my old stator and try it but bike won't even start. Keeps blowing main fuse

On the damaged stator, what resistance do you measure from any white wire to the stator frame?? Use a high resistance scale. You could try to gently lift the damaged wire away from the frame, and slide a thin piece of plastic between the wire and the frame.

What resistance do you measure from a white wire to stator frame, on your old stator??

 

[Splexin]

With the scale set to 20K ohms this is what I get......nothing. Same on 200K or just 200. Am I doing this right?? My old stator is on the bike right now but if I recall this is what I got when doing the same test on that one.

 

[peanut]

jeez how big is that image ??? it took half a minute to render on my broadband connection !

The reading you have there is an open circuit or infinity which it should be for stator windings to bare metal.

For measuring the windings You have the meter on the wrong setting. You need to put it on the lowest ohm setting ,probably 200 ohms, ( you have it set to 2000 ohms ! ) because you are measuring just a few ohms .

 

[Splexin]

jeez how big is that image ??? it took half a minute to render on my broadband connection !

The reading you have there is an open circuit or infinity which it should be for stator windings to bare metal.

For measuring the windings You have the meter on the wrong setting. You need to put it on the lowest ohm setting (probably 200 ohms ?) you have, because you are measuring extremly small resistance just a few ohms .

Haha I just shot it and uploaded it, didn't have time to resize. Think it's 12 megapixels

When I test white-to-white I always use the lowest (200 ohms), and get the same reading across all white wires.
About 0.5 ohms after subtracting 0.3 for the meter

 

[peanut]

Haha I just shot it and uploaded it, didn't have time to resize. Think it's 12 megapixels

theres my months bandwidth gone then !...

did you use the continuity setting to test from each of the brushes to the connector terminals ?
Just in case you have a break in the wiring . My stator wires are so old and brittle I'm afraid to touch them in case they snap!

 

[Splexin]

theres my months bandwidth gone then !...

did you use the continuity setting to test from each of the brushes to the connector terminals ?
Just in case you have a break in the wiring . My stator wires are so old and brittle I'm afraid to touch them in case they snap!

I haven't tested that on the old stator, but on the new one I tested voltage at the positive brush with key on and it was same as battery. So I inferred the connection was intact.