Got stranded for the first time yesterday (ever), baffled yet again, help???

[peanut]

Alternator passed the "slap" test .

Incidentally I forgot to ask you what is the 'slap test' ? do you always slap your bike before you ride it ? just to let it know who's boss

To save me going through the whole thread again did you check the rotor ? and if so what was the result ?

 

[Splexin]

Incidentally I forgot to ask you what is the 'slap test' ? do you always slap your bike before you ride it ? just to let it know who's boss

To save me going through the whole thread again did you check the rotor ? and if so what was the result ?

Slap test is where you hold wrench in front of the alternator (dangled from screwdriver) and when you turn key it generates a magnetic field which causes the wrench to 'slap' against the alternator.

Yes, I tested the new rotor and it passed slip ring tests per the Charging Guide here on the forums.

 

[peanut]

you need to check the lead from both brushes on the stator to the connector to make sure that both are sound. Its unlikely they are not perfect on a new stator but heck we shouldn't assume anything I guess. Check for resistance using the 200 ohm setting

Did you check the resistance between each of the copper tracks on the Rotor to the centre fixing nut on the end of the crank ? To make sure the windings are not shorted to earth.

Also what resistance did you get between the two copper tracks on the Rotor ? mine reads 3.8 to 4 ohms but I think it should read 5 to 7 ohms

 

[Splexin]

you need to check the lead from both brushes on the stator to the connector to make sure that both are sound. Its unlikely they are not perfect on a new stator but heck we shouldn't assume anything I guess. Check for resistance using the 200 ohm setting

Did you check the resistance between each of the copper tracks on the Rotor to the centre fixing nut on the end of the crank ? To make sure the windings are not shorted to earth.

Also what resistance did you get between the two copper tracks on the Rotor ? mine reads 3.8 to 4 ohms but I think it should read 5 to 7 ohms

Lead-to-connector for each brush reads virtually zero resistance....basically just registers the tester lead-to-lead resistance.

Slip ring to center nut reads infinity for each.

Resistance between the slip ring reads about 5 ohms.

 

[peanut]

so your alternator checks out ok so presumably when fitted you can measure an acceptable AC volt output yes?

I believe you have got a combined regulator and rectifier ? how does that check out ?

 

[Splexin]

I posted earlier than I am not getting any AC readings from the white wires. Am getting DC voltage from yellow wire, however, whether bike is on or off (prior to my discovery of the screw I was getting no voltage at that wire). I have not tested the new regulator yet...

 

[freddy3]

Splexin: Are you using a digital or analog volt/ohm meter?
If digital, make sure you're set to the correct scale (they can be confusing). If wrong, you'll get erroneous readings and end up doing alotta tail-chasing (not the good kind).

 

[freddy3]

Splexin: You can probably ignore my previous post. I missed your previous post with the photo of the digital VOM, which you stated was set to the correct scale.

 

[Splexin]

Splexin: Are you using a digital or analog volt/ohm meter?
If digital, make sure you're set to the correct scale (they can be confusing). If wrong, you'll get erroneous readings and end up doing alotta tail-chasing (not the good kind).

It is digital, and yes I was having odd readings earlier due to low battery. I like this meter, it is pretty clear.....for low ohms I just use 200 setting (lowest, it goes up to 20 million I think) and for measuring DC volts I use 20 (lowest setting). AC only has one setting, 750.

 

[freddy3]

Sounds good. Definitely keep an extra battery handy when testing. I had the same problem (dead battery) when I began my recent charging circuit quest. In my case, the problem appears to've been a duff stator (one of Mikesxs from a coupla years ago) that went out just as I installed a new tachometer. In your case, it might be worthwhile to take a break for a day and, then, begin the tests anew. Sometimes, even though the tests themselves are relatively straight-forward, they can be confusing. And once you veer off-track, it's difficult to find a shortcut back..

 

[Splexin]

New headscratcher guys,

So I threw on my old stator to see if it would work, but the main fuse keeps blowing. This only happens with the stator on the rotor. If I take it off (but still connected) and turn the key, the fuse doesn't blow. I'm not an electronics expert, any idea what's going on? Regulator is connected also.

 

[freddy3]

You've got something physically shorting-out between the stator and rotor (or chassis). If you inspect the inside of the stator and its complementary mating surfaces on and around the outside the rotor, you'll may find the problem. Loose/bent wire, wire missing insulation, loose or too-long screw, etc. Also, make sure all surfaces are clean and dry.

 

[Splexin]

Well I am just about to the point of giving up on this thing. Corrected the short that was blowing my fuse. But before that I put my new stator back on, having seemed to pass the stator tests. No charging, no AC voltage.

Took it back off and put back on my old stator, feeling certain this one would work since as earlier in the thread seen, it was unlikely the initial problem. No blown fuse this time, but still no charging, no AC voltage.

Neither stator configuration passes the slap test. Regulator is fine, rotor is fine, brushes read battery voltage with switch on, yellow wire shows voltage, but there is just no voltage being put out of the alternator.

I am following the testing procedures to the tee and it's just not putting out, everything points to the stator HAS to be grounded because no current but both stators??! I've taken these off and put back on so many times I am becoming obsessed with trying to figure out why they're grounding.

I am really confused and angry in the back of my mind I just want to choke down the loss and install PMA/Pamco but then I think, what if that doesn't work either?? I literally do not understand what the fuck is wrong with this motorcycle. I've had it an entire year and troubles here and there but nothing this extensive. I'm no genius but I'm no dummy either....I resolve issues fairly quickly.

I've been without wheels for an entire month now and this is very bad, it is my only transportation and I can only go so many places within walking distance. In 3 months or so I'm going to have to move and it's difficult to do so without transportation.

Anyways.............I'm calling it a night.

 

[freddy3]

I've been there, so don't give up yet. It's gotta be something simple that you either measured wrong or missed. Do this: Post your readings for each of the following tests from the factory service manual. Note which wires you're testing:
Voltage at battery terminals with engine running at 2500rpm:
Regulator:
Rectifier:
Stator:
Brushes:
Rotor Windings:

I know how confusing this gets, especially when you're relying on the bike for transportation. Mine's just a weekend fun machine, but I'm nearly climbing the walls after being side-lined for a month, so I can only imagine how frustrated you are.
Hang in there..

 

[jamesgs4]

Just do a PMA swap and Pamco already, there is a reason why they are so popular. My bike's stock charging system kicked the bucket en route to Mexico and left me stranded. I wish I would have swapped over before that instead of ruining an epic trip. Pamco works great, and the PMA has no wear parts to worry about.

 

[peanut]

Neither stator configuration passes the slap test.

t.

there is your problem right there !

When you turn your ignition on a 12v current from the regulator (green wire) should pass through the rotor to earth on the chassis .
It is this 12v current that creates the energy field within the rotor .


When the rotor is spun inside the stator the stator creates a 3x phase AC current which passes to the rectifier and regulator which on your model is I believe combined.

You need to find out why you are not getting a current passing from the ignition switch through the brushes to the rotor and back to earth.

1. Switch ignition on .Check you have 12v+ on the green wire to one of the stator brushes
2. check that you also have 12v+ coming back through the other brush via the rotor.
3. check that the second brush on the stator (black wire) goes to a good earthing point on the chassis.
If the rotor isn't getting earthed, try running a temporary earth wire from the stator brush that has the black wire attached to a good earth point and then try the slap test to make sure current is being passed through the rotor and creating a energy field

 

[retiredgentleman]

Well I am just about to the point of giving up on this thing. Corrected the short that was blowing my fuse. But before that I put my new stator back on, having seemed to pass the stator tests. No charging, no AC voltage.

Took it back off and put back on my old stator, feeling certain this one would work since as earlier in the thread seen, it was unlikely the initial problem. No blown fuse this time, but still no charging, no AC voltage.

Neither stator configuration passes the slap test. Regulator is fine, rotor is fine, brushes read battery voltage with switch on, yellow wire shows voltage, but there is just no voltage being put out of the alternator.

I am following the testing procedures to the tee and it's just not putting out, everything points to the stator HAS to be grounded because no current but both stators??! I've taken these off and put back on so many times I am becoming obsessed with trying to figure out why they're grounding.

I am really confused and angry in the back of my mind I just want to choke down the loss and install PMA/Pamco but then I think, what if that doesn't work either?? I literally do not understand what the fuck is wrong with this motorcycle. I've had it an entire year and troubles here and there but nothing this extensive. I'm no genius but I'm no dummy either....I resolve issues fairly quickly.

I've been without wheels for an entire month now and this is very bad, it is my only transportation and I can only go so many places within walking distance. In 3 months or so I'm going to have to move and it's difficult to do so without transportation.

Anyways.............I'm calling it a night.

OK............tells us what was causing the fuse to blow.

Not passing slap test???? Your rotor is an electromagnet............current flows through copper windings and produces a magnetic field. Lets solve this mystery, by measuring the current flow. Connect your VOM in series with the left outer brush, so that the rotor current can be measured with the VOM. Select the 10 amp scale. Put some electrical tape around the meter probe connections so that they cannot accidently touch ground.

Turn the key on and measure amps (without engine running). You may have the polarity of the current flow wrong, (select + or - ,if your meter has that) but does not matter, just get a reading on the current flow. Run the engine and get another reading of the current at 1200 rpm and at 3000 rpm.

Should read about 2 amps at 1200 rpm and about 1 amp at 3000 rpm.

 

[Splexin]

Just do a PMA swap and Pamco already, there is a reason why they are so popular.

When I first got stranded this was actually in my original plans, since I knew the stock system would fail eventually. It's only about $100 more for a complete Pamco/PMA than to replace the entire stock charging system, and that difference can be recouped by selling original parts.

The only reason I decided to just replace stock alternator parts was that Mikes was out of stock of Pamcos, and I needed something 'then' due to an upcoming trip I could not cancel or reschedule. In the end it didn't matter because Mikes didn't ship the right part anyway, so I had to rent a car.

1. Switch ignition on .Check you have 12v+ on the green wire to one of the stator brushes
2. check that you also have 12v+ coming back through the other brush via the rotor.
3. check that the second brush on the stator (black wire) goes to a good earthing point on the chassis.
If the rotor isn't getting earthed, try running a temporary earth wire from the stator brush that has the black wire attached to a good earth point and then try the slap test to make sure current is being passed through the rotor and creating a energy field

OK just tried this....

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Can you please clarify? The brush wires connect to the wiring harness.


RG, fuse was blowing because exposed stator wires were touching chassis (old stator). I taped 'em up and no more blown fuses.
My meter does not have Amps, only AC, DC, ohms, and RPMs.

 

[peanut]

OK............tells us what was causing the fuse to blow.

Not passing slap test???? Your rotor is an electromagnet............current flows through copper windings and produces a magnetic field. Lets solve this mystery, by measuring the current flow. Connect your VOM in series with the left outer brush, so that the rotor current can be measured with the VOM. Select the 10 amp scale. Put some electrical tape around the meter probe connections so that they cannot accidently touch ground.

Turn the key on and measure amps (without engine running). You may have the polarity of the current flow wrong, (select + or - ,if your meter has that) but does not matter, just get a reading on the current flow. Run the engine and get another reading of the current at 1200 rpm and at 3000 rpm.

Should read about 2 amps at 1200 rpm and about 1 amp at 3000 rpm.

I thought that I had already identified the problem and covered this in the previous post ? why are you repeating what I said ? surely it will just confuse the issue further .

 

[Splexin]

I've been there, so don't give up yet. It's gotta be something simple that you either measured wrong or missed. Do this: Post your readings for each of the following tests from the factory service manual. Note which wires you're testing:
Voltage at battery terminals with engine running at 2500rpm:
Regulator:
Rectifier:
Stator:
Brushes:
Rotor Windings:

I know how confusing this gets, especially when you're relying on the bike for transportation. Mine's just a weekend fun machine, but I'm nearly climbing the walls after being side-lined for a month, so I can only imagine how frustrated you are.
Hang in there..

Throughout the thread I have tested these things, but I will try to run these in sequence and post the results later today.

Guys, is the yellow wire supposed to have voltage even with bike off (no key turned)? I think I asked this earlier and never got an answer. What bothers me initially was the headlight turning on even with (non-bypassed) safety relay. This is not supposed to occur until voltage from alternator goes to the safety relay. But I am getting voltage from yellow wire whether bike is on or off, which may explain why headlight comes on when I turn key. You get what I'm saying?? Something is just not right there. I know the focus right now is on the alternator not charging but this other thing is bugging me too.