Got stranded for the first time yesterday (ever), baffled yet again, help???

[peanut]

OK just tried this....

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Can you please clarify? The brush wires connect to the wiring harness.


.

The reason that your alternator isn't charging the battery is because the rotor is not being earthed ..

.You have told us that it has a a 12v supply to the positive stator brush but the rotor is not creating a induction field therefore the rotor is not getting earthed

the black coloured wire that comes from one of the stator brushes should be earthed. If your bike is the later one 80+ then the earthing is done via the regulator. This is clearly not happening for some reason or other

To bypass the regulator you could take a wire off the stator brush that has the black (earth) wire connected to it and take it to an earth point on the bike . By that I mean anywhere on the bike that is connected to the earth terminal on your battery .

Then try the slap test ...it should now work.

ps make sure that if you have removed the brushes to make these tests that you have kept both brushes and black and green leads insulated electrically from the stator body

 

[Splexin]

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! It worked!!! Not only the slap test but when I started the bike the battery read into 13 volts!!!!!

So do you think it's my regulator??? The hell??? Brand new OEM! Bought from Mikes also -____-

Or just bad grounding on that brush wire????

Edit:

Took off workaround wire, connected old regulator..... 13ish on idle, higher for 3000 RPM (but not into high 15s+ like with the workaround).
Put on new regulator.....12.60ish on idle, no change for 3000 RPM.

Means bad regulator right??? M'fing brand new $100 regulator.

 

[peanut]

thank god ! ......I was just about to slash my wrists lol

the regulator is not necessarily bad it could be a break in the black wire somewhere between the brush and the regulator so do a continuity test with the lowest ohm setting on your meter to eliminate that.

your reg needs a very good earth to chassis to work and to dissipate excess heat so make sure the fixing surfaces are nice and clean bare metal and tightly bolted.

The regulator on the later models is a bit more sophisticated than the early ones and actually regulates the output of the alternator from 14v down to zero depending on the battery charge and loading so you will get a variable output which is perfectly normal.... I've not read that far yet lol try running a new bypass wire from brush to regulator and see if voltage output improves.

great news that its working again. Go for a blast

 

[Splexin]

I am most certain the new regulator is defective. Even when not mounted the old one still works. But plug up the new one and doesn't pass slap test. Moving wires or device position doesn't help. Bizarre.

I guess the reason I never suspected it was that I was so focused on the stator. I literally just got the new regulator in the mail on Monday.

So instead of being out $200, I am only out $100

In my excitement I ordered everything at once and installed all at once, under the assumption that brand new would not arrive defective. What I should have done is bought and installed one thing at a time, i.e. rotor OK good, then stator OK good, then regulator OK.....that way I could know if something was bad.

I was actually planning on ordering my regulator off eBay but decided on Mikes because I needed some other stuff too. Had I ordered off eBay I would've got a return guarantee I'm going to try to get Mikes to give me a credit of some kind, because this sucks

 

[peanut]

be careful not to run the alternator without first bolting the regulator to the earthed frame of the bike or you'll probably blow it .The reg must be earthed and heatsinked to the bike frame when in use

 

[Splexin]

be careful not to run the alternator without first bolting the regulator to the earthed frame of the bike or you'll probably blow it .The reg must be earthed and heatsinked to the bike frame when in use

The regulator for 1980+ has a ground built into it. Somewhere on here I read that only pre-1980s have to be set to the frame.
Either way, I'm not going anywhere without it bolted down

Here is one example: http://www.650rider.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7644

 

[Splexin]

WELL that celebration was short-lived!!!

Okay so I put the bike back together....starting it every now and then to make sure it was still charging.....everything seemed good to go

After I started it one last time I put on my air pods and poured some gas in the tank, then went to get dressed so I could take it for a ride

Come back, all ready to go, try to start it and nothing!!!

This bike refuses to start! I thought maybe the ignition coil wire had come loose after I reset the gas tank (because that has happened before), but no it was fine. I didn't think my pods had anything to do with it but took them off and tried....still nothing!

Just that endless clickity of the start (kick start no go either), and then engine will stutter as if trying to start and then BOOM I swear the loudest backfire I have ever heard!!!! It literally sounds like the exhaust is getting blown off. Sometimes only after I turn the key off

But no starting!!! Why all the sudden???? It was perfect earlier. I'm thinking maybe the gas was bad??? But it should at least start and run crappy.

Ideas???? I am even more irritated now because my worst fear is getting a motorcycle completely reassembled only to try and start it....and it won't. But it's not like I connected wires or put on parts after I started it last.....I literally started it a few minutes earlier. It's late and I just want the damn machine to fly!!!!!

I am uploading a clip here:

 

[freddy3]

Remove one spark plug, connect its high-tension lead, hold it against the engine (to ground it) and run the starter. Make sure you're getting a (good) spark. Repeat with other plug.

Also, after all the parts-swapping, have you checked/set your ignition settings/timing?

 

[Splexin]

I will test the plugs in the morning, a thought popped in my head though. I don't recall starting the bike after replacing the side-cover....only turned key to do slap test. If I tightened the cover down too tight I may have smashed the TCI wire, cutting off the current from the pickup?

I replaced the parts to the same positions verbatim as the old....in other words, matched rotor position, timing marks etc. Should I re-do the timing?

The thing that bugs me is, the bike ran perfectly fine just minutes earlier. So if 'something' was off I would have noticed before. That's why I think it's either bad gas or the cover smashing the TCI wire or something else.

 

[freddy3]

If you suspect the gas, replace it. Then, try spraying a bit o' (good) gas directly into the cylinders via the spark plug holes and try to start it again. If it still doesn't run correctly, it's the electrics.
Otherwise, if it ran good minutes ago, but isn't running now, then you must've done something (or forgotten to re-do something). Backtrack all of your actions since the bike ran well...

 

[peanut]

The regulator for 1980+ has a ground built into it. [/url]

the regulator doesn't have a 'built in' ground ???

The regulator body is its ground surely ?. it has to be securely bolted to a good earthing point on your chassis or it won't work ! My schematic for a XS650G model shows the rectifier body as a ground. Is your bike later than a G model ?

 

[peanut]

as you say the bike was running perfectly before replacing the cover and seat etc it must be something you have disturbed . It has to be.

Remove everything you put back after the last time the bike ran and try again.

You must be getting both fuel and a spark because of the backfiring .
The only problem is that you are either not getting a strong spark or you are not getting a spark at the correct time for some reason

I
have you cleaned all your earthing points proprerly ? All of your problems so far have been due to poor earthing it seems to me.

 

[Splexin]

the regulator doesn't have a 'built in' ground ???

The regulator body is its ground surely ?. it has to be securely bolted to a good earthing point on your chassis or it won't work ! My schematic for a XS650G model shows the rectifier body as a ground. Is your bike later than a G model ?

lol.........listen the regulator has a ground wire.....that is the built-in ground. Did you read the thread I linked to? It doesn't matter, the new regulator is bad whether mounted our not, it was mounted properly all this time ever since I got it.

as you say the bike was running perfectly before replacing the cover and seat etc it must be something you have disturbed . It has to be.

Remove everything you put back after the last time the bike ran and try again.

You must be getting both fuel and a spark because of the backfiring .
The only problem is that you are either not getting a strong spark or you are not getting a spark at the correct time for some reason

Well I was actually right this time. The engine side-cover was smashing the TCI pickup wire, disrupting the signal. When I took off the cover and adjusted the wire it started fine. So I just have to figure out how to route the wire so it doesn't get smashed. Usually there is a small hole where TCI and stator wires run from alternator; the problem is the rubber grommet on my new stator only holds the stator wires, so no room for TCI.

Edit:
Just pushed the rubber grommet up and put on the old one....held both wires just like before! Took it out for a nice ride and wheew! I have missed this thing so much. Cannot believe it's been an entire month since I've ridden it.

I think I'm good to go and hopefully I won't have any more issues any time soon. What would make things so much better now is if Mikes gives me credit for the defective regulator they sent me. Cause mine will go out eventually

Anyway, thanks to peanut and everyone else for their assistance during this very frustrating time

 

[Splexin]

The good news is that Mikes sent me a replacement regulator, A+ for customer service

The bad news is that the replacement doesn't work either

Thank goodness I didn't ditch my original regulator

 

[XSLeo]

Are you sure Mike's reg is bad? Maybe it's just not wired right. His harnesses have been know to have the plugs wired wrong. Do the colors match from the reg/rec to the bikes harness?
I know from helping others that his reg/rec for the early models need to be wired just right. I doubt the 80up is any different. Did it come with installation instructions? I know if the brown and green wire are reversed on my Chyysler reg it will kill it as soon as power is applied.
Leo

 

[Splexin]

Are you sure Mike's reg is bad? Maybe you don't have it wired right. I know from helping others that his reg/rec for the early models need to be wired just right. I doubt the 80up is any different. Did it come with installation instructions? I know if the brown and green wire are reversed on my Chyysler reg it will kill it as soon as power is applied.
If your stock reg/rec is working then why the replacement?
Leo

I thought it was wiring too except for the fact the old reg works. No installation instructions, but this is OEM. For the 80 it's just plug in and done. Only goes in one way too. Really hard to screw up. I bet my 2 year old niece could plug it in.

I bought a new one because I already basically replaced everything else......regulator is original and bound to go out eventually.

 

[XSLeo]

I went back and edited my post. It may not be your wiring but the wiring on the reg/rec. And in my edit I asked if the colors match across the plug.
Leo

 

[Splexin]

I went back and edited my post. It may not be your wiring but the wiring on the reg/rec. And in my edit I asked if the colors match across the plug.
Leo

If the harness was wrong my original regulator wouldn't work either. Here's a picture of the plug on the replacement....I can't really compare to my original because the wires are blackened from grease and age.

 

[XSLeo]

I'm sure your bike is wired right, I was wondering about the reg/rec.
Well those wires match what the wires are on the one in my hand. So it should be wired ok. Any way it was just a thought.
It may be bad. I just find it hard to believe you would get two bad ones. Contact Mike's and tell him you just want a refund or at least a store credit.
Using the Chrysler reg Radio Shack rec like I use is another option.
Good luck.
Leo

 

[Splexin]

It may be bad. I just find it hard to believe you would get two bad ones. Contact Mike's and tell him you just want a refund or at least a store credit.
Using the Chrysler reg Radio Shack rec like I use is another option.
Good luck.
Leo

That's exactly my thoughts, one bad okay but two in a row? Seems rare. And I know other people around here are using this OEM regulator.

The first bad one I requested credit and they said I could return it, they would test it, and if bad they would send replacement. I got the replacement today and emailed them again after it didn't work either. They said their team is evaluating the situation. I'm hoping they will just give me a refund or at least credit. I really prefer using OEM parts, I know the Chrysler/RS mod is cheap and reliable but I'm just not handy at homegrown electronics, I am more of the plug-and-play guy. Not that I'm lazy or anything