Heiden tuning sump filter.

toglhot

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Jerry XS650 <info@jerryxs650.nl>​

Wed, Jan 17, 11:45 PM (7 hours ago)
I made an enquiry at Heiden tuning asking what micron rating their sump filter was. This was the answer I received.

Hello
We do not give any information about the filter.
We know it is perfect for the xs 650 engine.
And we do not prefer a filter in the sump with smaller holes.
That give to much restriction in the way to the oil pump.
As some German companies make.
This can destroy the engine.
Best regards,
Jerry van der Heiden
 
Actually to me not a bad answer to your question.
We do not give any information about the filter.
There is no reason for them to give away their secrets. They spent their time and money to figure it out.
And we do not prefer a filter in the sump with smaller holes.
That give to much restriction in the way to the oil pump.
It is a very bad idea to put a true filter on the suction side of a pump. I've seen first hand when I worked in industry what will happen when a positive displacement pump has too much restriction on the suction side.
If you think about a automotive engine they use a screen on the oil pump pickup and a filter on the pressure side of the oil pump.
 
I am with Mr Toglhot this time
I have seen all kinds " Final Solution "as replacement parts for the factory setup. .
And Chemicals Oil additives
Back it the day non stock parts had a poor quality control I remember stories about push rods för Brit Bikes

Everyone is telling their product is much better than anyone else's That is the sales pitch
Sometimes it is better . But Yamaha's Designers was experts in a time when their Quality standards was outstanding high
This being a Motorcycle developed over 15 years . With market feedback
It is a fluid flow system that is important for the motorcycle Yes the stock filter is cracking ..

I do understand that they dont give away information that could make someone else copy it .That is normal
But I dont think I would buy it

Maybe they know this --- We know it is perfect for the xs 650 engine.
But I dont

Perfect is a big word and has been heard before
 
I should add that on the pressure side of pumps there is usually a bypass valve to let oil bypass the filter if it gets plugged up. I also remember seeing on suction screens a few times a spring loaded flap that would open to allow oil to bypass the screen if it got plugged. I do not remember if that was in automotive or industry. The jist of it it crappy oil flowing is always better than no oil flowing.
 
I don’t think a manufacturer / distributor needs to reveal all specs on their products, especially if it’s proprietary. Back in my old company we sold equipment to China. I went there to commission the equipment and was hounded for two days by their engineers for construction detail and proprietary information. Their sole interest was to copy our equipment, which they did 5 years later (With no help from me. lol).
 
I don’t think a manufacturer / distributor needs to reveal all specs on their products, especially if it’s proprietary. Back in my old company we sold equipment to China. I went there to commission the equipment and was hounded for two days by their engineers for construction detail and proprietary information. Their sole interest was to copy our equipment, which they did 5 years later (With no help from me. lol).
China is the absolute worst when it comes to patents or proprietor rights. They have no respect for either. One of the reasons their stuff is so cheap is they spend no money developing it. They just steal what other people have spent money on to figure out.
And yes I do by stuff from China but it is stuff that is a mature product. Things that there is no special knowledge needed to make them.
 
Actually to me not a bad answer to your question.

There is no reason for them to give away their secrets. They spent their time and money to figure it out.

It is a very bad idea to put a true filter on the suction side of a pump. I've seen first hand when I worked in industry what will happen when a positive displacement pump has too much restriction on the suction side.
If you think about a automotive engine they use a screen on the oil pump pickup and a filter on the pressure side of the oil pump.
That's why I asked the question.
 
China is a leader in many technologies now. They do that by copying existing technologies and improving them. Beforenthe Japanesebdid exactly the samenthing. If not for that we'd all still be driving around in T models. The West is very slow to improve on its technologies, satisfied to rest on their laurels.
The Australian car industry is an excellent example. Ford and Holden both continued making cars nobody wanted, relying on what was basically old technology and what they had been making for 60 years.. Eventualy they both shut down and now we don'thave a car industry.
 
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China is the absolute worst when it comes to patents or proprietor rights. They have no respect for either. One of the reasons their stuff is so cheap is they spend no money developing it. They just steal what other people have spent money on to figure out.
And yes I do by stuff from China but it is stuff that is a mature product. Things that there is no special knowledge needed to make them.
Much of the "cheapness" comes from low quality metals as well as poor tolerances too.

In terms of OEM is best, I will say this. Sometimes ENgineers make a mistake. Example, the sump filter OEM design. Someone did not study up on fluid dynamics. There was no computer modeling back then either. The hacks here on this site are all anyone needs to know :)
 
Much of the "cheapness" comes from low quality metals as well as poor tolerances too.

In terms of OEM is best, I will say this. Sometimes ENgineers make a mistake. Example, the sump filter OEM design. Someone did not study up on fluid dynamics. There was no computer modeling back then either. The hacks here on this site are all anyone needs to know :)
And in 50 years Yamaha never saw fit fix or redesign it. Let alone in the 12-14 years they made these bikes. In retrospect I suppose, a good move, plenty of dollars to be made from spare parts.
 
Chinese tools: I have both Mtutoyo and cheap Chinese micrometers. Just out of curiosity I compared the measurement of the two, both measured exactly the same throughout their range of movement. The only difference, the Mitutoyo cost over a hundred bucks, the Chimese micrometer was $8 and the Chimese micrometer is much heavier.
The Mitutoyo sits in its box and I never use it. The cheap Chinese one gets thrown all around the shop, dropped on the floor, sits in a pool of coolant for hours and still it measures accurately. I wonder how well the Mitutoyo would stand up to that treatment.
When Ibought the cheapies I reasoned if I damaged them they were only a few bucks to replace, they are all well over 15 years old now, never had to replace them.
That's not to say all Chinese manufactured items are oky doky. The Chinese have trouble accepting the difference between imperial and metric measurement: I bought a throttle which the ad said would fit 22mm/7/8" bars, I enquired as to whether they were 22mm or 7/8". They replied 'both'. I sent off for them anyway and when they arrived they would not fit 7/8", however they fit a piece of 22mm tube I had lying around. Interestingly, the Chinese also advertise their bars as 22mm/7/8" bars, but they are actually 7/8". I found the same with handlebar switchgear. Switchgear are easy to fix with a little judicious filing, but throttles - nope!
 
And in 50 years Yamaha never saw fit fix or redesign it. Let alone in the 12-14 years they made these bikes. In retrospect I suppose, a good move, plenty of dollars to be made from spare parts.
Yes Sir it is a bit strange
But it was supposed to be serviced at the dealer pretty much after a trip around the block .. Ridiculous short oil change interval .And replacing the filter is the norm for other vehicles .Mr Jetmech says that after a warm up ,, Good practice it wont split.
If it cracks it don't restrict the oilflow which would be far more problematic.

At times the design is aimed at the first " Rich " owner not the other crowd trying to keep it rolling to long Yamaha want to sell new bikes.
New cars have electronics that are working for the first owner not so much later
Was talk of not having a spare tire .No lady is going to change it at the Roadside any way .And if she tries the air is out.
Had to leave the idea -- Customers said stop
 
Does fitting a sandwich plate say 25mm thick to lower the sump plate and the stock inlet strainer help at all with protecting the mesh from splitting?
Good thinking 99. Who knows, but it's worth a try I suppose. i fashioned a guard for mine so, its not a problem
 

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Have seen mention of a sump extension somewhereabouts on the forum, was to allow a greater oil capacity IIRC.
 
Have seen mention of a sump extension somewhereabouts on the forum, was to allow a greater oil capacity IIRC.
Seems to me that keeping the oil level lower than the crankshaft is likely to result in a couple of free horsepower.

I can't find a thread just about an extension to a XS650 sump. There's a few about TX750's and mentioning Heiden and Smedspeed sumps but from the perspective of a different filter arrangement. I can't really find anything about stock inlet filter and deeper sump. I might just be hopeless at searching though.
 
Thanks. That first link tells me quite a lot that's of interest. Pity there's no long term experience of putting the stock inlet filter lower down in an extended sump. Or at least, there doesn't appear to be anything recorded here.
 
Chinese tools: I have both Mtutoyo and cheap Chinese micrometers. Just out of curiosity I compared the measurement of the two, both measured exactly the same throughout their range of movement. The only difference, the Mitutoyo cost over a hundred bucks, the Chimese micrometer was $8 and the Chimese micrometer is much heavier.
The Mitutoyo sits in its box and I never use it. The cheap Chinese one gets thrown all around the shop, dropped on the floor, sits in a pool of coolant for hours and still it measures accurately. I wonder how well the Mitutoyo would stand up to that treatment.
When Ibought the cheapies I reasoned if I damaged them they were only a few bucks to replace, they are all well over 15 years old now, never had to replace them.
That's not to say all Chinese manufactured items are oky doky. The Chinese have trouble accepting the difference between imperial and metric measurement: I bought a throttle which the ad said would fit 22mm/7/8" bars, I enquired as to whether they were 22mm or 7/8". They replied 'both'. I sent off for them anyway and when they arrived they would not fit 7/8", however they fit a piece of 22mm tube I had lying around. Interestingly, the Chinese also advertise their bars as 22mm/7/8" bars, but they are actually 7/8". I found the same with handlebar switchgear. Switchgear are easy to fix with a little judicious filing, but throttles - nope!
I have Mitutoyo calipers at work for me and 3 others. Mine is almost 15 years old and I think my Main ME his is almost 20 and never failed. I have 4 cheap chinese from Amazon and Harbor Frieght for bullet reloading and the bikes. I abuse them and 1 right now is failing. They are lower quality for sure. But that's ok cause I want multiples at home and fear a $100 caliper for I would surely lose it, I know I would.
 
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