Help! I am all out of ideas

[XSsex50]

Straight up bike wont charge - i know another one! I have tried searching the forums but i don't think anyone has the same problem as me.

1972 XS650 with solid state regulator rectifier and wiring harness completed by me. Everything works except the charging portion.

Stater is 5ohms all round and not shorted out to ground - running a solid state reg/rec so have installed nylon screws.
Regulator rectifier is a electrosport and changes voltage from AC to DC but wont charge the battery, it is slowly going down in voltage and when rev'd it jumps up slightly (.01 of an volts) but no where near 13.4 volts
Brushes brand new
Stater replaced this afternoon - last hope and still same result.

Everything should work which makes me think that my wiring might be the cause.

So wiring he we go....

+ from battery to key and to + reg/rec
- to ground
3 white wires out of stater to 3 white wires out of reg/rec
black brush to brown of of reg/rec and spliced back to battery +
Green brush to green reg/rec

Thanks heaps guys for having a look for me.

Couple of photos of my bike just to show off.

Matty

 

[MaxPete]

Sounds like a wire broken INSIDE the insulation somewhere....

 

[XSsex50]

Thanks MaxPete. I will run some fresh cable out and by pass the harness and see if that makes any difference. How quickly does your xs charge on idle?

 

[gggGary]

Stock charging break even point is about 1200 RPM.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

I don't think any XS650 will charge at Idle unless Idle is around 2500RPM ! not sure on that but its how I understand it !
take a Volt ohm meter and see if your getting AC from the stator 3 wires if you have AC voltage there and it's getting to the Rectifier /regulator
then I would check the regulator/rectifier's OUTPUT wire which should be your charging voltage..... if that charging voltage is going to ground
it may have already fried the reg/rectifier so check where that's plugged into for ground....
somewhere along those lines you should find a fault..... like no AC from the stator ,or no voltage in the rectifier /regulator OUTPUT wire.
if you simply have voltage from the stator going in and nothing coming out the rectifier is Kapoot ! if it's brand new it doesn't matter at all ! it's not working... wouldn't be the first time an electronic part is bad from the factory !
...... so Isolate the problem
first make sure you have AC coming from the stator
get that out of the way.... it should be good
then go to the rectifier /regulator unit it could be wired wrong or simply bad.
or if your real lucky, it could be putting out the voltage it should but it's just not getting to the battery ( fuze?)
good luck hang in there you can do it !
Bob.......

 

[weekendrider]

http://www.xs650.com/threads/needed...d-state-rectifier-regulator.6564/#post-381667

Limeybikes post may help?

 

[cra-z1]

I have been running a Mikes reg/rec fr the last 8 years and I do not remember anything sbout changing to nylon screws. Just used everything like it came from the factory. Maybe recheck that. I have read about people needing to change to nylon for some reason but not sure why. I thought it was on the newer models.

 

[5twins]

There were 2 different types of regulators used on these bikes. The earlier type, used up through '79, regulated power to the outer brush. The later type, used from 1980 on, regulated ground to the outer brush. The aftermarket solid state combo units can be had either way, with either type of regulator in the unit. You need to figure out which unit you have and wire the brushes accordingly.

The plastic screw mod is the accepted way to make the later ground switching regulator work on the earlier alternator. But there's another step to it besides just changing the screws. You have to change the wire on the inner brush too. It was originally ground, you have to make it a switched power wire. You're not going to get any charging if you feed ground to both brushes.

 

[XSsex50]

Thanks gggGary, Bob Kelly III, Weekendrider, Cra-z1 & 5Twins.

Ok a couple more tests to do. Is there a test i can do to check if the reg/rec is dead other then putting power on it? Just thinking for warranty.

 

[XSsex50]

Attached is a quick drawing of how I have wired it in. Is the green a negitive from brush to reg?

Or are both brushes positive?

Thanks for all your help I really appreciate it.

 

[5twins]

On either setup, one brush is positive, the other negative. Which is which will depend on the type of regulator you have, a ground switching or power switching type. So, that's what you need to determine. I would think the instructions that came with the combo unit should tell you that. If not, that's just one more of many, many reasons I consider those combo units a complete and utter waste of money.

Your drawing isn't much help other than to show you have it wired wrong. You don't want to splice power into any of the wires running from the regulator to the brushes. Basically, that would just bypass the regulator if it was the power switching or regulating type. If it was the ground switching type, you would then have power to both brushes which wouldn't work. But who knows what those wire colors means on the aftermarket unit. Many times they don't match the factory colors.

Show us a pic of your alternator and brushes, also the combo unit you're trying to use (or a link to the one you bought). Hopefully you haven't fried something by hooking things up wrong but that can't be ruled out.

 

[XSsex50]

5twins

The link to the unit is http://www.electrosport.com/street-...ls-70-81/yamaha-xs650-regulatorrectifier.html

When i get home from work i can take a few photos of the set up.

Do you mind drawing it out of what it should look like so i can get my head around it?

 

[5twins]

OK, I looked up the Electrosport reg/recs. It seems they offer both types, so which did you get? If you got the correct one for the earlier points ignition and power switching regulator type charging system, it should plug right in, well according to them anyway, lol.

 

[5twins]

Alright, it appears you got the right unit for a '72 (early charging setup), as long as you still have the original stator and brush setup. I'll explain how the original stuff was hooked up and that should help you understand how to wire up the replacement. Here's a pic of the early brush setup .....

The inner brush with the black wire is grounded to the stator housing by it's 3 mounting screws. The black wire is actually not delivering a ground to the brush, it's picking one up and sending it back to the original regulator. The original regulator has 3 wires, a brown, a black, and a green. The black is the ground from the inner brush. The green is what it feeds it's regulated power signal to the outer brush on. The brown is switched power from the main harness. This is what runs the regulator, gives it a "heads up" on how much power is flowing in the harness. If that voltage starts dropping too low, the regulator cranks up the alternator to put out more charge.

Looking at the pic on the Electrosport web site of the unit you got, it appears to have 2 little harnesses w/ plugs coming out of it. The bigger one with the 3 whites, red, and black is for the rectifier portion of the combo unit. The whites are from the alternator and feed AC current into the rectifier. The black is ground of course, and the red feeds converted DC current back to the battery. How much depends on how much the regulator is allowing the alternator to put out. The smaller harness is for the regulator portion of the unit. It appears to only have 2 wires, a brown and a green. It must be sharing the ground fed in for the rectifier portion of the unit so it doesn't need it's own ground wire. The green wire would run to the outside brush, the brown wire to switched power from the harness. So, it seems that if you install one of these Electrosport units, the black wire connected to the inner brush is not used any more. It runs to nothing.

 

[fang88619]

Alright, it appears you got the right unit for a '72 (early charging setup), as long as you still have the original stator and brush setup. I'll explain how the original stuff was hooked up and that should help you understand how to wire up the replacement. Here's a pic of the early brush setup .....

The inner brush with the black wire is grounded to the stator housing by it's 3 mounting screws. The black wire is actually not delivering a ground to the brush, it's picking one up and sending it back to the original regulator. The original regulator has 3 wires, a brown, a black, and a green. The black is the ground from the inner brush. The green is what it feeds it's regulated power signal to the outer brush on. The brown is switched power from the main harness. This is what runs the regulator, gives it a "heads up" on how much power is flowing in the harness. If that voltage starts dropping too low, the regulator cranks up the alternator to put out more charge.

Looking at the pic on the Electrosport web site of the unit you got, it appears to have 2 little harnesses w/ plugs coming out of it. The bigger one with the 3 whites, red, and black is for the rectifier portion of the combo unit. The whites are from the alternator and feed AC current into the rectifier. The black is ground of course, and the red feeds converted DC current back to the battery. How much depends on how much the regulator is allowing the alternator to put out. The smaller harness is for the regulator portion of the unit. It appears to only have 2 wires, a brown and a green. It must be sharing the ground fed in for the rectifier portion of the unit so it doesn't need it's own ground wire. The green wire would run to the outside brush, the brown wire to switched power from the harness. So, it seems that if you install one of these Electrosport units, the black wire connected to the inner brush is not used any more. It runs to nothing.

Im having the same issue with my 79
I have rewired everything as you suggested and it still doesnt charge
white to yellow
white to yellow
white to yellow
red to the battery
black to a ground
brown to a switched positive
green to the inner brush

Still nothing
Voltage drops way down when I hit the gas

 

[5twins]

Green goes to the outer brush.

 

[fang88619]

Green goes to the outer brush.

Sorry I meant outer brush, still nothing

Why wouldnt there be a magnetic field?
it was there before I swapped out the combined reg/rec

 

[5twins]

Maybe your combined unit is bad, either from wiring it wrong at first, or maybe it just came that way. Watching your video in your similar thread, it appears you made the same mistake in wiring at first. You fed power into the brown wire and also connected it to the black brush wire. I'm not sure what the results of that would be besides it not charging, like could it fry something? Maybe, I don't know.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Thanks 5Twins ! good info there !
I'ed like to add that most of the electronic gizmos for automobiles or Motorcycles do not have protective diodes in them so it only takes touching the wrong wire to hot once and it can fry the unit in a hart beat..... However if you lucked out and hooked the hot wire of the reg to ground nothing should have happened... fix the wiring as per 5Twins directions and it should work.... if it don't you probably already fried the unit and need a new one.
just guessing here .... and I'm no expert ! so go for it !
Bob..........

 

[5twins]

Fang, I watched your video and see you used the nylon screws on your inner brushes. You only do that if your new reg/rec unit has the later ground switching regulator in it. If your new unit is the proper type for the older charging system and has a power switching regulator, you don't want to change to the nylon screws. That ungrounds the inner brush and now the circuit through the rotor is not complete. That would explain your no charging and no magnetic field.