Help! I am all out of ideas

[XSsex50]

Thanks 5twins and Bob kelly III. It makes perfect sense now.

I will let you guys know how i go on Friday when i get a chance to get into the workshop.

- Matty

 

[fang88619]

Fang, I watched your video and see you used the nylon screws on your inner brushes. You only do that if your new reg/rec unit has the later ground switching regulator in it. If your new unit is the proper type for the older charging system and has a power switching regulator, you don't want to change to the nylon screws. That ungrounds the inner brush and now the circuit through the rotor is not complete. That would explain your no charging and no magnetic field.

Ok so let's see if I have this right
Yellow to white
Yellow to white
Yellow to white
Red to battery positive
Black to ground
Green from reg to green brush wire (outer)
Brown from reg to black brush (inner)

With the regular bolts on the stator connections?

At this point I suspect the regulator may be at fault, I purchased one on eBay advertising it as working with this bike
I am picking up one today that is off an 83 so I assume I will need the nylons for that if I go that route

 

[5twins]

On the older charging system with a power switching regulator (like yours), the inner brush needs to be grounded. Normally it is by it's 3 mounting screws. You don't want to feed it power from a brown wire in the harness or connect it to the brown wire from your reg/rec. Don't connect it to anything from your reg/rec. The brown wire from your reg/rec should be connected alone to a switched power wire in the harness. So, do that and put the steel screws back in the inner brush mount, and the system should work, if you didn't fry anything. All your other connections appear correct, just that inner brush one was wrong (and the mounting screws).

 

[fang88619]

ok looks as if I have it pretty close
I picked up a 83 stator and reg/rec combo
heres an updated video, does it look correct besides swapping back the nylons for steel bolts?
Thanks again Im very grateful for the help

 

[fang88619]

If anyone is willing to walk me through this thing on a video chat I can pay you via paypal

 

[5twins]

Dude, I'm pretty sure we had your old system and problems figured out. Now you've gone and installed different and new type charging system components. You've gone from apples to oranges. None of the wiring info I gave you for the old system applies to these new components so DO NOT WIRE IT UP THAT WAY. I'm afraid you've tried my patience and I'm going to throw the towel in on this one. Someone else can step up to the plate and walk you through this new mess.

 

[fang88619]

I dont quite see the difference between the old setup and the one I have on the bike now,
Same style combined regulator rectifier except this one was from a functioning xs650
Brush holder from my old stator has been swapped into the new one
I wired up everything as you instructed with the exception of the nylon screws since I am now using one from an 83 and not one set up for an earlier 70-79 (plug and play from electrosport) and I am getting a magnetic field now
Thanks for your help anyways 5twins, sorry for the frustration I just figured getting a functioning oem regulator would narrow down the problem of having a fried regulator

 

[Bob Kelly III]

I don't understand 5Twins complaints but then I do not have his knowledge of parts either !
I do know that an 83' has TCI ignition ( no points ) but it looks like to me the altenator is identical
as I have an 82'/83' and as far as I know the Rec/reg is a combined unit in the tech section you might check out the wireing on the 83'
Rec/reg and make sure it's the same as what you were going to do...
here's the link to the Tech reference here on the site.
http://www.xs650.com/pages/tech/
....
I would ground the inner brush and power the outer and see what ya got !
.....
good luck
Bob........

 

[fang88619]

I don't understand 5Twins complaints but then I do not have his knowledge of parts either !
I do know that an 83' has TCI ignition ( no points ) but it looks like to me the altenator is identical
as I have an 82'/83' and as far as I know the Rec/reg is a combined unit in the tech section you might check out the wireing on the 83'
Rec/reg and make sure it's the same as what you were going to do...
here's the link to the Tech reference here on the site.
http://www.xs650.com/pages/tech/
....
I would ground the inner brush and power the outer and see what ya got !
.....
good luck
Bob........

Thanks bob Looks like its been solved
The way I currently have it wired is
Yellow to white (stator to reg)
Yellow to white (stator to reg)
Yellow to white (stator to reg)
Red from reg to positive battery terminal
Green from reg to green outer brush on the stator
Brown from the reg to the black wire on the stator with a positive wire tied in from the fuse box

I ungrounded the inner brush (black wire) with the nylon screws

I should note that Im currently using a stator and regulator from an 83 on my 79
seems to be that the old regulator I got from ebay was a dud, I had everything wired up correctly from what I can tell
Here's a video of my current wiring

 

[Bob Kelly III]

LOL OK well I'ed use a VTOM to check the voltage but if ya don't have one you need to get one !
looks like you got the problem solved ! Good for you !
Persistence counts in this game !
Ride safe !
......
Bob...........

 

[peanut]

I can completely understand 5Twins frustration with this .

If we are going to mix and match components from different model years plus add some non-oem components into the mix , we need to put some effort into gaining some basic understanding of how the charging system works and what we are doing .
You cannot put a load of parts together and just join up a green wire to another green wire and a red wire to another red wire just because they are both the same colour! ...aggghhhhh

Someone needs to put together a simple video guide on how the various charging systems of the different models are wired up and how they work together with a clear guide to identify and distinquish the different components from the various models

 

[fang88619]

I can completely understand 5Twins frustration with this .

If we are going to mix and match components from different model years plus add some non-oem components into the mix , we need to put some effort into gaining some basic understanding of how the charging system works and what we are doing .
You cannot put a load of parts together and just join up a green wire to another green wire and a red wire to another red wire just because they are both the same colour! ...aggghhhhh

Someone needs to put together a simple video guide on how the various charging systems of the different models are wired up and how they work together with a clear guide to identify and distinquish the different components from the various models

I completely understand that's why I chose to get an oem part rather than just hoping an aftermarket one is working
Ive been riding up and down the block all morning and the battery is holding a charge
and I know how frustrating this must be for everyone, hence the video, I can see how difficult it is to try to figure something like this out with almost no knowledge of electrical components, It must seem easier said than done for someone with said knowledge, I was going to the extent of researching how electromagnetism works, trust me I am trying to learn just glad everyone is being patient

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Fang, what you have now will work, but it's not right. A little more to go. Now that you have the later 80-up stator housing, you should be using the later 80-up brush block in it, with the later 80-up brushes, without the nylon screws. Then you'll have a complete 80-up charging system. Maybe this post will help make sense of the different systems:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/nylon-screws.43874/#post-437779

 

[peanut]

I completely understand that's why I chose to get an oem part rather than just hoping an aftermarket one is working
Ive been riding up and down the block all morning and the battery is holding a charge
and I know how frustrating this must be for everyone, hence the video, I can see how difficult it is to try to figure something like this out with almost no knowledge of electrical components, It must seem easier said than done for someone with said knowledge, I was going to the extent of researching how electromagnetism works, trust me I am trying to learn just glad everyone is being patient

Hey fang glad to hear that your bike is running good and charging too thats great news.

I wasn't referring to you specifically when talking about electrical wiring which is why I used the word 'we' in my text so it would be clear I was talking in general terms. I could see that you were listening to everything being said and trying to get your head around a complicated topic .

It is a pet frustration of mine that everyone always talks in terms of coloured wires instead of which component the wire connects too.

None of us should ever ever trust that any given coloured wire has a correct connection at the other end of the wiring loom or within any given component.

Someone really does need to do a clear pictorial guide to XS650 charging , it would save so much heartache and frustration ....not to speak of all the fried regulators and other components

 

[mrtwowheel]

I could see this mistake happening ..............The Yamaha XS ground wires are black. Almost every other manufacturer of electrical components uses green for ground wires and if there is a black it is probably + power of some sort. So, mixing up components and the difference in charging system functions is enough to give you a migraine. I've matched components and wiring on two different bikes with two different systems from scratch and I could not recite all of the details of the two different systems without deep thought and reference. This is what 5 twins did for you, I can totally understand his frustration after doing this free, unselfish, WORK for you. Maybe it was necessary to change the game plan, but that didn't make it any less frustrating. Frustrating, as in, all of that WORK for nothing. Shit happens.

Scott

 

[XSsex50]

Just an update - Bike charges fine and i didn't blow up any components. I was using the solid state regulator rectifier that grounded through the stater but wiring it to the diagram that ungrounded the stator. Pretty big headfu*k but got there. Thanks to everyone for running through this with me.

 

[mrtwowheel]

Good job, it takes some thought, especially with the two different systems on these bikes, and then add the PMA confusion into the mix.

I was wiring my Honda for the Fiat regulator and an ebay rectifier. I had half of the wiring connected when I realized I have no power wire to excite the alternator. Turned out the rectifier wiring was all different than I was doing. That could have been bad if I started it up. Learned a lot about wiring separate rec/reg though, it almost makes sense to me now.

Scott