wrmdovr
If it were easy.....everyone would do it!
i saw that....very cool and totally unique.....really dig it. in my opinion it is those type of things that really make personalize a bike. WRMDOVR
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Its almost winter. Time to ruin another bike (1970 XS1)
- Thread starter Abrasive
- Start date
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Thanks man. It's nothing compared to the bike in your gallery.
Going to rebuild the original front forks. Sourcing all the parts for the internal springs is turning into a pain in the ass, as I'd really prefer to put new springs in if I'm going through the trouble of rebuilding everything.
I think I may try to get the motor mounted up on a dolley with fuel and a battery and see if I can get it running. I was hoping to pull it apart and send away for a rephase, but I'm trying to avoid anything that I'm going to have to "save up" for, as those things tend to put huge delays into my projects. If I can get it running on the cart and compression is adequate, I'll throw it into the frame as is and maybe get a rephase somewhere down the road.
Going to rebuild the original front forks. Sourcing all the parts for the internal springs is turning into a pain in the ass, as I'd really prefer to put new springs in if I'm going through the trouble of rebuilding everything.
I think I may try to get the motor mounted up on a dolley with fuel and a battery and see if I can get it running. I was hoping to pull it apart and send away for a rephase, but I'm trying to avoid anything that I'm going to have to "save up" for, as those things tend to put huge delays into my projects. If I can get it running on the cart and compression is adequate, I'll throw it into the frame as is and maybe get a rephase somewhere down the road.
Didn't want to clutter your want-ad.
These cover the steering stem stuff, may come in handy.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs1b-front-upgrade-winter-project.43795/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/id-these-triples.37563/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/bottom-steering-stem.43161/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-identify-lower-clamp.32624/
These cover the steering stem stuff, may come in handy.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs1b-front-upgrade-winter-project.43795/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/id-these-triples.37563/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/bottom-steering-stem.43161/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/help-identify-lower-clamp.32624/
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Thanks again man! I'll read through all that once I'm done work.
Question:
Since my front end is fairly rare (I believe), and it's looking like getting a new upper clamp for the front end is going to be expensive, what are my low budget front end swap options?
Wondering if I'd be best served by trying to sell my forks and front wheel and finding a newer style front end with spoked wheel and disk brake. I know I used to have a link saved that had all the front end specs for all the old metric bikes listed to make finding a swap easier, but damned if I can find it again...
Question:
Since my front end is fairly rare (I believe), and it's looking like getting a new upper clamp for the front end is going to be expensive, what are my low budget front end swap options?
Wondering if I'd be best served by trying to sell my forks and front wheel and finding a newer style front end with spoked wheel and disk brake. I know I used to have a link saved that had all the front end specs for all the old metric bikes listed to make finding a swap easier, but damned if I can find it again...
wrenchjohns
XS650 Addict
check ebay for "yamaha xs1 top clamp" there are at least 2
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Just a little update now that I've got my welder back and in the garage:
Finishing up a makeshift frame jig today. I picked up an XV750 front end for a song, so I'm going to use that up front. It's about 3" longer than stock, and has a forward mounted axle. Throwing some numbers into a frame calculator, raking the neck to about 32*-34* seems like a good idea (trail would be about 5.5"). Should have the front end mounted to the jig later today so I can measure everything and do some real world calculations.
Additionally, instead of stretching the swingarm im thinking that I'll cut the entire swingarm mounting gusset off and remount the swingarm pivot further back behind diagonal rear upright instead of in front of it. I think that will clean up the frame a lot, and be a bit different from what I've seen others do. It also allows me to play with the swingarm angle and shock angle to avoid binding and get the visual lines right.
Also thinking about doing a single downtube, but not sure on that yet.
Right now, seat height is looking like it'll be around 22", rear will be effectively stretched by about 3", and front will be raked 5-7* to maintain correct trail.
Any thoughts (that aren't "Put it back to stock")?
Finishing up a makeshift frame jig today. I picked up an XV750 front end for a song, so I'm going to use that up front. It's about 3" longer than stock, and has a forward mounted axle. Throwing some numbers into a frame calculator, raking the neck to about 32*-34* seems like a good idea (trail would be about 5.5"). Should have the front end mounted to the jig later today so I can measure everything and do some real world calculations.
Additionally, instead of stretching the swingarm im thinking that I'll cut the entire swingarm mounting gusset off and remount the swingarm pivot further back behind diagonal rear upright instead of in front of it. I think that will clean up the frame a lot, and be a bit different from what I've seen others do. It also allows me to play with the swingarm angle and shock angle to avoid binding and get the visual lines right.
Also thinking about doing a single downtube, but not sure on that yet.
Right now, seat height is looking like it'll be around 22", rear will be effectively stretched by about 3", and front will be raked 5-7* to maintain correct trail.
Any thoughts (that aren't "Put it back to stock")?
Hi Abrasive,
while shifting the swingarm pivot away from the transmission sprocket may allow a different look it will also screw up your rear chain tension.
The further the transmission sprocket and swingarm pivot points are apart the more the chain goes slack as the suspension moves.
And that's not a thing you want, eh?
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Good point,
I betterbuild a model of it in CAD and see if I can make it work while maintaining chain tension..
Maybe just need to add a chain tensioner, which I should probably do regardless...
I betterbuild a model of it in CAD and see if I can make it work while maintaining chain tension..
Maybe just need to add a chain tensioner, which I should probably do regardless...
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Hi Abrasive,
yes, a chain tensioner would work but how common would that look, just like every second hardtail ever made?
If you are wanting a rarer look you could check out Ariel's "Anstey Link" rear suspension
which they used to solve their plunger frame's chain tension problems.
wrmdovr
If it were easy.....everyone would do it!
hey Abrasive.....glad to hear the project is moving along.....there are always stops and starts. i have found that when i leave a project and come back to it with "fresh eyes" things tend to move along better. please keep us posted and if there is a build thread share it. i for one am taking this winter off and not working on motorcycle projects but rather on other items such as my '63 Chevy C10 which needs a new transmission and relocating the gas tank, so will need to feed my motorcycle build habit vicariously through you! Good luck! WRMDOVR
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Well, it looks like this is happening today. Let's hope I don't cock it up.
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Oh dear...
Well, if you meant to do that, fine. But keep the filler welds away from the head race pockets. A weld-warped bearing pocket will spoil your whole day.
Abrasive
XS650 Member
Thanks, I'll keep the welding away from the pockets as much as possible. Trying to let it cool and not put too much heat into it.
Rake settled out to about 33* after welding (it pulled in about a degree).
Next Ill bring it to a friends place, as I don't have a mandrel tubing bender here. Hoping to have the downtubes finished this weekend.
I also had some new sleeves machined for the swing arm pivot, so i should have that mocked up shortly.
Rake settled out to about 33* after welding (it pulled in about a degree).
Next Ill bring it to a friends place, as I don't have a mandrel tubing bender here. Hoping to have the downtubes finished this weekend.
I also had some new sleeves machined for the swing arm pivot, so i should have that mocked up shortly.
wrmdovr
If it were easy.....everyone would do it!
hey man.....as my motto states.....if it were easy everyone would do it! with every step, or build you will bank very valuable experiences that will serve you well in future builds or for friends ready to embark into the vast unknown. hang tough and keep to your guns and if something doesn;t work out.....suck it up and cut it off, grind it out and rebend and reweld it. i would love to say that all of my builds went completely as planned without any problems......BWAAAAHHHAAAAAAA! Right! i only F-ed up a shit ton on my last build and i frankly gave in to it that it is an inevitable part of the organic process. i'd bet that i rebuilt everything enough to build three bikes! anyone tells you different.....well....either they have a little motorcycle angle on their shoulder or their lying their ass off. keep it going and keep everyone posted. i for one am hanging on every step.......WRMDOVR
I'm curious as to how you filled in the gap between the head and the top tube
Abrasive
XS650 Member
It was tricky without a tubing notcher.
I made sure I left enough meat at the top of the backbone to provide some lateral stability. I opened up the gap so I had room to work, and to round out any hard angles to reduce stress risers. I ended up with about 1" gap at the bottom and 5/8 at the top. Then I notched and trimmed a piece of 1-1/2" DOM to fill the gap. Once it was trimmed and notched to rough shape, I cut the same amount off the top as I had left on the original backbone. Once I had it slid into place, it sat flush and parallel with the original backbone with about 1/16" gap (maybe 1/8" in a couple rough spots)
Beveled everything and started putting a root pass in, making sure to grind everything back to ensure a full pen weld. Once I ensured a solid root was there, fill, grind, fill, grind until done. Tried to keep my passes short and leave time so I didn't heat the head up too much.
Does that make sense?
I'm an inspector by trade, so I have easy access to some testing equipment that most guys don't have in their shop.
I'll do a wet fluorescent mag particle inspection on it tonight to make sure there are no defects open to the surface. I may do some ultrasonic testing if I don't further reinforce it, just for piece of mind.
Ultimately, the backbone was just welded up to keep the head aligned until I could get the downtubes done. once those are installed, I can either reinforce or replace the backbone if I have any concerns about it. Realistically, there isn't very much stress in these frames, so I'm not super worried
If anyone has any questions about mag particle testing, let me know and I'm sure I can point you in the right direction.
I made sure I left enough meat at the top of the backbone to provide some lateral stability. I opened up the gap so I had room to work, and to round out any hard angles to reduce stress risers. I ended up with about 1" gap at the bottom and 5/8 at the top. Then I notched and trimmed a piece of 1-1/2" DOM to fill the gap. Once it was trimmed and notched to rough shape, I cut the same amount off the top as I had left on the original backbone. Once I had it slid into place, it sat flush and parallel with the original backbone with about 1/16" gap (maybe 1/8" in a couple rough spots)
Beveled everything and started putting a root pass in, making sure to grind everything back to ensure a full pen weld. Once I ensured a solid root was there, fill, grind, fill, grind until done. Tried to keep my passes short and leave time so I didn't heat the head up too much.
Does that make sense?
I'm an inspector by trade, so I have easy access to some testing equipment that most guys don't have in their shop.
I'll do a wet fluorescent mag particle inspection on it tonight to make sure there are no defects open to the surface. I may do some ultrasonic testing if I don't further reinforce it, just for piece of mind.
Ultimately, the backbone was just welded up to keep the head aligned until I could get the downtubes done. once those are installed, I can either reinforce or replace the backbone if I have any concerns about it. Realistically, there isn't very much stress in these frames, so I'm not super worried
If anyone has any questions about mag particle testing, let me know and I'm sure I can point you in the right direction.
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Hi Abrasive,
you posted:- "If anyone has any questions about mag particle testing, let me know and I'm sure I can point you in the right direction."
There's many a frame modifier who'd be interested. And not just mag. particle but any NDT system that an amateur welder could use without laying out a whole pile of money to buy the gear and taking an NDT course on top of it.
My own welder's mantra "Length replaces strength" is all very well for making homebuilt trailers or indeed making anything where I can increase the weld length to suit my low-grade welding skills but frames ain't like that, eh?
you posted:- "If anyone has any questions about mag particle testing, let me know and I'm sure I can point you in the right direction."
There's many a frame modifier who'd be interested. And not just mag. particle but any NDT system that an amateur welder could use without laying out a whole pile of money to buy the gear and taking an NDT course on top of it.
My own welder's mantra "Length replaces strength" is all very well for making homebuilt trailers or indeed making anything where I can increase the weld length to suit my low-grade welding skills but frames ain't like that, eh?
Abrasive
XS650 Member
I could do a quick write up on mag particle and liquid penetrant testing in a separate thread if there's interest. Those only require strong magnets and/or spray can chemicals you can get from any industrial supply store.
I'm going to do some MPI on my neck welds anyway, and I could LPI the repairs I just had done to an aluminum engine cover.
I'm going to do some MPI on my neck welds anyway, and I could LPI the repairs I just had done to an aluminum engine cover.
Hi Abrasive,
dunno if there's an interest in weld inspection but for all the posts I see about members home-welding on frame conversions I reckon there's a definite NEED for a home welder's NDT cheatsheet.
Just because I don't see the wisdom in removing a bike's rear suspension don't mean I want the daft bastard to come to harm because of a failed weld, eh?
It'd help if you talked to Travis about making a tech tip or a sticky on your write-up.
