New-B ... Sump Filter change

[rockslide]

Greetings Fellow XS Lovers ...

I've owned bikes all my life - this is my first XS650 and I agree with all of you - first things first, so I changed the oil the moment I got my XS650 bobber home. I've read the posts and understand that I should also change the sump filter. Agreed. But where do I find it? Looking at the bottom of the motor guessing it's there? Also - looking for the definitive answer on WHO/WHERE does one get a GOOD new sump filter?

Oil sump filter location?

27mm oil drain plugs I pulled:

I pulled the main small filter from the side of the bike - how would you guys suggest cleaning it? It had small debris so I used my air compressor to blow out the chunks. Is there a better way? I didn't want to tear the metal screen - so that's why I used air.

Also used 15/40 Diesel oil after reading all the posts as no one seems to agree what oil should be used. We'll see how that thick stuff works ...

Also - if someone could point me in the direction of a GREAT manual that would be much appreciated. I'm not talking links to PDF's that have dark blotchy photos - I need nice clear pics (they speak more than a thousand words ya know!).

Thanks in advance ...

-Mark-

 

[bloodthirstysystem]

just blow them out, maybe pour some good oil through.. the sump filter is in the first picture with 6 10mm bolts holding it. no need to replace, just clean and repair if screen is torn

 

[rockslide]

Thanks for the info BloodThirstySystem ... Which repair manual do you rely on?

 

[mrkelvinator]

Undo the 6 hex bolts and you'll find the filter. MikesXS is a GREAT site to order parts from.

There are manuals under the Tech section, from what I've seen almost all manuals have the dark pictures, but its better than nothing. Though http://www.650motorcycles.com have some really good DIY guides which have super clear pictures.

Hope this helps

 

[5twins]

Best on-line manual for pictures is this German one, but there's the rub - it's in German .....

http://www.hjpahl.com/Buchauszug.pdf

Another one with good pictures is here. It's in three languages including English but only covers up to the D model. Still, much applies to newer models .....

http://yamxs.joaquim.ch/crbst_4.html

If you want to become an educated 650 owner, download and study all the info you can find. Cross reference between several manuals and ask on one of these lists if you still have questions.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Any kind of solvent or even gasoline can be used to soak the strainers (filters).

Don't exceed 7 ft-lbs when you reinstall the sump plate.

Assuming your sump filter is torn. Use the "Search" function (upper right corner) and type in "sump filter repair". That will give you some repair methods. If you don't wish to repair, MIkesxs.com has new ones. I have used the one from Mikesxs for the last 4 years with no problems.

15/40 is not "thick stuff"..................most people use 20W50 motorcycle oil.

 

[rockslide]

You guys are awesome!! Thanks for all the great info. Guess I now need to start investigating the manual links you sent me ... and I guess I'll hit ebay for a good hard copy. Thanks again guys - MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

 

[OakBehringer]

I made a "shield" for my new MikesXS sump filter. Some people still compain that the screen will blow out with an "improved" MikesXS filter, and it only takes a few minutes with aluminum and tin snips, so why not?

 

[rockslide]

Ok guys .. so all of the links and pics I've seen so far show the damaged part of the sump filter being blocked off by various strips of metal. My brain is clicking that this would not be the most effective way of fixing these filters in that now you lose a piece of the filtration area as it's being blocked off. I guess the idea is that you block the bad sections of the torn filter media with strips of metal (mig welded, jb welded, whatever)? Is that the thought pattern here? As for the product from Mikes - it appears to be getting mixed reviews. Maybe I should head over to the local bike junk yard here in Northern Colorado and pull a filter - and see what I can come up with ... if I do that I'll post a picture for your thoughts.

 

[Purplezinger]

All, I repeat ALL xs650 sump screens are torn. They fracture in the area where the screen is flat not corrugated. Covering and or blocking over this area does not in any way reduce the filtering process. The sump filter is many times larger than the filter in the side case. This is a common repair that has been done thousands of times. A point of fact, these sump screens fractured shortly after the bikes left the factory. I very much doubt you will find a used one not fractured.
20w50 Diesel oil is the preferred oil or a 20w50 oil with the JASCO MA rating.

 

[gggGary]

I got really, really, close today, what looks to be a very low miles motor I got with a couple of bikes. Opened the sump with high expectations and.............Only a small tear.......

 

[rockslide]

I understand your point on the weak screen material that Yamaha used. I would *think* that the solution would be to cover the weak area with a strip of metal screen instead of just covering it up with a piece of metal (tuna can material, copper pieces, etc) - thus not reducing the filtering surface area.

But again - I am completely new to the XS650 world - and I am honestly not doubting any of the suggestions you guys are offering up. Just trying to understand the logic. Heck, I may just take the easy way out and go buy a replacement filter from MikesXS - but that may not be as fun. THANKS GUYS - AGAIN, MUCH APPRECIATED

 

[Purplezinger]

The sump filter is the "rock" catcher. It stops chunks rubber that escape from the cam chain guides and other bits that could get into the system. If you are familiar with automobiles, it compares to the screen on the oil suction tube inside oil pans. You are NOT reducing the filtering process. The final filtering is done by the filter located in the side cover.. A new replacement may not in fact be any better. There are reports of them fracturing as well. Look this was a design problem from day one that Yamaha chose to ignore. My first XS2 back in the early 70's had a fractured sump screen within just a few thousand miles. Thats just the way it is...

http://www.xs650.com/forum/picture.php?pictureid=2757&albumid=435&dl=1302307622&thumb=1
http://www.xs650.com/forum/picture.php?pictureid=2756&albumid=435&dl=1302307622&thumb=1
http://www.xs650.com/forum/picture.php?pictureid=2755&albumid=435&dl=1302307622&thumb=1

 

[5twins]

Yes, it's a design flaw. The way the filter juts out on the right end there produces a weak spot. It's right next to the oil feed hole so the pressure is higher there. They always blow out in that same spot, never anywhere else that I've seen.

The new "improved" filter tears as well. It is reinforced with perforated sheet metal behind the screen but if you examine one closely, you'll see the sheet metal veers away from the screen in the area that blows out - so it's actually not improved in the very spot it needs to be most.

I think Pamcopete figured out the problem - running too high an RPM before the motor is fully warmed. The oil is still cold and thick, the pressure is higher, so the filter tears. I was surprised my original filter was not torn but at the 1st oil change a few hundred miles later, it was. I put a new "improved" one in and once again, at the 1st oil change it was torn as well. I bought one more new one but by now was aware of the cold oil and high RPM problem. I've been taking it easier on this one and so far, so good. I'm done buying new ones, though, now I just patch them. I use only JB Weld, no metal strips .....

If you are going to make a metal shield, I suggest that only for a new, untorn filter. If you have one that's already torn, you need to patch that tear 1st, you can't just cover it with metal. And if I ever did resort to a metal shield of some sort, I would make it removable so I could inspect the screen under it from time to time.

 

[rockslide]

Ok ... I need to go to the junk yard and pick up one of these filters. No - I didn't check mine during the first oil change as I wasn't positive where it was. Now I know where it is. I'll go yank one from the yard, and will take a pic of it once I'm done modifying it. You guys can let me know what you think (or just laugh at me!). It will be ready to install for my next oil change.

 

[lassenc]

I'd not waste money on a new sumpfilter, but get the filter conversion instead, they're much cheaper to exchange too.

 

[5twins]

Pick up the sump plate as well if you can. That way you can have a clean, mounted filter ready to swap in at oil change time.

 

[rockslide]

Ah! Great idea! Maybe a couple of them if I can find them ... I'll head over to the yard today after work or in the morning. I'll post pics if my ideas work out. Thanks!!

 

[pyroman]

Welcome to the forum, RS, and remember......JB Weld is Your Friend!

 

[rockslide]

Ok ... so I went to the yard today and guess what I found? A plate with the sump filter for the XS 650! So .. this thing was COMPLETELY cruddy so I took it home - soaked it in gas and cleaned it up. Guess what was torn? Yep - the cheesy Yamaha screen. Knowing that this screen is just trouble in that bits and pieces of it are going to end up throughout my motor, I removed it. I'm thinking about putting this over the hole - what do you guys think? You guys told me that the only thing this filter is supposed to stop are the big hunks of crap that could end up in the bottom of my motor - and this would stop the big hunks of crap (material is from an air filter I also got from the yard).
Ok folks ... thoughts?