New-B ... Sump Filter change

[gggGary]

Yeah use that and then cover it with JB weld. About the only thing that would keep out of the pump is chipmunks. The best is a new filter then a metal shield over that area so the oil jet doesn't tear it. There is is plenty of filter area left even after that area is covered if you seal it off, about three times the area of the second filter.

 

[rockslide]

Agreed - I guess I'm trying to reinvent the wheel here - but this is how I learn. I do have a mod to this filter though I think is going to really help ...

On this filter are two small magnets that are supposed to attract the bits of metal floating around in the oil on the bottom of the motor. Well, I'm a computer geek at heart and I can tell you that if you open up an old disk drive you'll find inside some magnets like NO OTHER. They are so strong that if you put them on your frige you just about need a crow bar to pry them off. I'm going to take a couple of those tiny magnets and let them hook onto the existing magnets on this filter. I know this will increase the amount of metal shavings that the original magnets are supposed to capture.

 

[Purplezinger]

It looks to me like the expanded metal you have has holes that are too large. I thought I and others had explained this clearly. If not, here it is, one last time, the screen fails where it's not corrugated, remove the failed screen (as you have done in the photo) then SEAL OFF THE AREA. There are many threads on this site with pictures and instructions. Read them, then follow the instructions.

 

[rockslide]

Yes - I understand - clearly - that you and many others have completely blocked off the area. No questions. I understand. I'm just not so sure I agree is all. I was trying to provide an alternate approach. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Purplezinger]

Gary, I've read your comments and those of Pete. I do agree the fracturing is due to oil but I have a different theory. The oil pump is gear driven and therefore follows engine speed exactly. Every 360 twin's pistons stop momentarily every 180 degrees of rotation. I believe that jitter (for the want of a better word) is reflected back to the oil pump and therefore into the oil suction. This high frequency fluctuation causes the flat area of the screen to vibrate and fracture. I've looked at the fractured screen under a microscope and it looks like metal fatigue to me. Your thoughts?

 

[Classic]

I sure am missing out on all this torn sump filter business. My xs has 31k on the original and it still looks brand new. I am pretty sure it has to do with high rpm on a cold engine. If it was metal fatigue mine would be torn as well.

 

[rockslide]

Now there is some good advice! Let the bike warm up a little before grabbing the throttle. New filter or old, I think I'll go with that rule of thumb.

 

[XSLeo]

I use strips cut out of soup, tuna fish, even beer cans. If the hole is to large to cover with just JB Weld. The small amount of screen you cover up won't be enough to slow the oil flow.
Leo

 

[XSLeo]

If you can find some brass screening with as fine a hole patern as the stock screen , apply the air filter mesh then the brass screen over that. Then it might work.
Leo

 

[gggGary]

PZ you may be on to something there I might tend more towards the effect of two pistons banging in and out of the crank together causing pressure waves................ The end result is the same.
Fleas bay has sellers of stainless steel screen in just about any gauge you could imagine. I wonder if it would MIG or JB weld to the housing???
Straight up, I have MIGed a few sheet metal patchs on but worry about weld crap in the oil system afterward.

 

[Purplezinger]

I worked one the idea from the "back door". I started with the fractured screens noting that it was always in the flat area and never in the corrugated area. Under a microscope the fractured areas looked like metal fatigue. At the time, I was still working and asked some of our QC people what they thought. They agreed. Now the question is: How could metal fatigue be a factor on a part that is stationary, has no loading or stress and does not move. The answer seemed to be in outside influence. I.E. the oil flow. If the oil flow were consistent then that might eliminate it. But it's not, it fluctuates with engine speed. Other factors could also enter into the problem, oil viscosity, oil temperature. All of this lead me to the theory that pressure fluctuations in the suction (jitter) leads to the fracturing of the oil screen.

 

[rockslide]

As I continue on my journey for my own solution to this torn screen problem I have placed some screen over the air filter media I presented in my photograph, and sealed all with JB Weld. I tend to believe that this first filter can be compared to the filters found in the bottom of car motors in the oil pan in that it doesn't, in my opinion, need to capture minute particles - only the larger ones that are to be kept out of the oil pump. The minute contaminants will be captured in the smaller side filter, and hopefully the metal impurities will be attracted to the new and improved magnets I plan on introducing to the filter.

Question: Any specific reason(s) for the brass screen filter media that has been used by Yamaha that anyone can think of?

(NOTE: If you don't agree with my approach please don't "scold" me - reply back with good reasons why you feel I may be attempting to solve this in the wrong manner. I'm not some young punk kid - I've had many motorcycles in the past - so please be cordial in your answers)

 

[5twins]

I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel here. A simple patch with sheet metal and JB Weld or just JB Weld alone (my preferred method) is all that's needed. I leave the old torn screening in place and just cover it. It acts as a backing and support for the JB Weld - kind of like the glass sheets you coat with resin when doing fiberglass work. The JB Weld soaks into the screen and makes a very strong bond/repair. Better, I think, than just some around the edges of a sheet metal patch.

 

[rockslide]

5twins ... you are right in that I'm revisiting an old topic that has been solved by patching the hole ... but what about my approach? Do you see any flaws? As long as large particles do not enter the oil pump then mission accomplished - right?

 

[5twins]

I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing, it's just more work than is needed. I can only hope you apply the same due diligence to some of the other areas of the bike that need fixing like tuning the carbs and improving the handling, lol.

 

[Purplezinger]

You are correct in that the sump filter is the same as the screen on the oil pickup in an automobile. I also agree with 5twins there's nothing wrong with what you're doing so go with it. It's just more work than is needed. 5Twins is correct the fractured screen (once degrease) provides a excellent grip for the JB Weld.

 

[rockslide]

Thanks guys ... you know it may be more work, but for me it's a labor of love and gives me a reason to go to the bike junk yard and dig around in the heaps of old parts. Call me weird but I enjoy doing that kind of stuff. As for fixing the bike up to handle better, etc ... she's not exactly a "stock" bike. Take a look at my photo album. As for tuning the carbs, adjusting the valves... I'll need to find a local mechanic to show me how to do that. I watched a guy on YOUTUBE adjusting his valves and it appears to be a job I'll need to be shown how to do. My manual should be arriving any day now too ...

 

[PetesPonies]

Because I have seen JB Weld fracture ( not in this usage though, but small pieces of JB Weld running around is not good ) I'm wondering if any out there have thought of using SealAll?? Gasoline and Oil resistant, I have become fond of this material in other applications. Could be a material to block the holes in the sump filter as well?

 

[retiredgentleman]

Because I have seen JB Weld fracture ( not in this usage though, but small pieces of JB Weld running around is not good ) I'm wondering if any out there have thought of using SealAll?? Gasoline and Oil resistant, I have become fond of this material in other applications. Could be a material to block the holes in the sump filter as well?

I've not seen "SealAll" used. Perhaps you have a picture of where its used?

I had been using Mikesxs "improved" filter for 4 seasons without ripping, but finally after 4 seasons it did rip. I used JB weld only, with no additional metal, and after 1 season of use it looks to be in good condition.

 

[XSLeo]

The Seal-All is a good product. It can fix some big leaks in fuel tanks and such. It is thinner than JB Weld, so it will be harder to work with, but should work.
Leo