New purchase - 1978 xs650E

[RPC3]

Hi all - I'm going to be posting quite frequently I'm sure over the next few months (years?) to help troubleshoot and get advice on a bike I'm hoping to pick up this weekend. Assuming everything goes as planned I'll have a '78 650 standard in my driveway by tomorrow afternoon (and worst case scenario, I'll have some sort of 650 before spring's end).

My plans for the bike are going to be three phases. 1) get it running as best possible under stock conditions, 2) clean it up a bunch cosmetically while keeping it running under stock conditions, 3)start modernizing it a bit for reliability/handling sake (pamco, PMA, updated electricals, etc) once phases 1&2 are done.

This will be my second bike, so I'm not totally green to motorcycles but I'm still on the newer side. I just sold my first - a 1974 Honda CL200 which I spent the last two years tinkering with and riding (rebuilt and synched/balanced carbs, rebuilt clutch, new points, set timing, changed gaskets and seals, did all shop maintenance such as valve heights, new brakes, fork oil, etc). I'd say I'm handi-capable, but I'm still learning quite a bit and thus need to rely on places like this forum in addition to the shop manuals for advice.

Assuming I get the bike, I'll probably change the gas, put a new battery in, change the oil,new plugs, and will see if it'll fire up. Shortly after I plan on rebuilding the carbs, ordering a gasket set so I can take the side covers off and inspect, clean out the oil filters, clean the electrical connections, test the advance unit, etc. and hopefully be at a good place with everything. The bike looks mostly stock and un-tampered with, but hasn't run for a few years.

I'll get some photos up as soon as I can so people can help let me know whats different than stock or if anything looks suspect. I don't have a ton of tools yet, so I'll need some help building up my supply (currently have a basic mechanics tool set from sears, torque wrench, impact drive, snap ring pliers, feeler gauges, etc), but I just bought a house and have a shed I can finally start utilizing a bit for bike space. It looks like my options for parts are going to be mostly mikesxs, 650central.com, ebay, and bike bandit/other OEM retailers. I've got the downloadable shop manual and a clymer manual on the way. Looking forward to having a reliable and long term bike to ride and work on - hopefully more to follow soon.

 

[Scrambled]

Welcome to the site , sounds like you are off to a good start and you have about the best model XS to work with . One word of advice I can give you before you get started ( I have a bad habit of doing just this ) make sure you need to do what you are doing before you do it . You see a lot of "basket cases " for sale , these are people that tried to do more than they were capable of . One thing at a time , finish what you started and you won't get overwhelmed .

 

[weekendrider]

Welcome to the site RPC3.
Good luck with the purchase!

 

[nj1639]

Yep, welcome aboard! You should do fine but if you're unsure - post a query and wait for a response before tearing in.
Looking forward to them pics.

 

[XSLeo]

Welcome aboard.
You did a very good thing getting the repair manuals. These will be the most used and valuable tools you will ever have.
On upgrades I agree with the Pamco, points are not much fun. The PMA won't fix a reliability issue. The stock charging system is a good reliable system. They just need a bit of TLC.
A better charging system upgrade would be swapping the stock reg and rec for more modern replacements. Often less than $35.
As mentioned tackle one thing at a time.
Step one might be starting at one end of the bike and working to the other, cleaning, tightening and greasing every electrical connection on the bike. This takes some time but eliminates a lot of problems before they become problems.
Leo

 

[tonyc]

RPC3 I also own a 78.

 

[RPC3]

Alright, bike is in the driveway after the 7 hour round trip to get her. First impression is that there is quite a bit of clean up to do on the bike, but honestly it doesn't look too rough. Has definitely seen some years outside, though I couldn't notice any major gas or oil leaks. Tires and tubes will need replacement sooner rather than later, front brake lever has has no resistance at all and the front brake is slightly dragging (I'm new to M/C/disc brakes, so research to follow on my part). The battery tray is surprisingly rusty, but electric connections look pretty clean and all uncut. Some electric(?) tape on the dust boot covers, some rusty spokes, some rust right on the end of the headers by the engine, and unfortunately no center stand- but hey, I'm in the game now.

From my first glance it looks like I've got (obviously) aftermarket rear shocks, handlebars, and mufflers (anyone have any idea on what the shocks or mufflers are?). The seat is from a special, correct? At least its in good condition. If anyone else sees any red flags or other non-stock arrangements I'd be curious to know.

Next step is to get a purchase order together for mikes xs. Aside from a new battery, I'd like to buy a few items at once to help save on shipping. I plan on getting carb rebuild kits, new brakes front/rear, obviously something to do with the front brake (including probably the lines, as those look pretty rusted at the connection points, despite the lines feeling relatively supple). Any other suggestions on items I'll likely be wanting to/should be replacing in the next month or so? Might as well lump it in to one order.


And for the important part, the pictures:

 

[650Skull]

Welcome, bike looks to be in prety good nick.

Forget Mikes, the next thing to do is go through the bike completely testing and cleaning all electrics, switches/couplings/bullet-connectors and cleaning all grounds and groundings.

Remove the carbs and inspect and clean. DO NOT dip in a carb cleaner.

Buy a new battery and see if you can get the bike running. Doesn't matter if the charging system doesn't charge properly, the bike will run ok just make sure the headlight is off.

Dismantle your front calipers and M/C, check parts for pitting and wear.

Go through this link and throughout the Manual are links to tutorials and videos relating to areas of the bike at the top of each chapter

Tech Menu, Go down to "Maintenance and General Troubleshooting" to help you get a handle on what order and where to start. Google search is very handy

 

[nj1639]

Congrats!
Yep,what Skull sez....
If she was mine I'd be on the lookout for a standard seat and pan and be considering Mikesxs Commando header/muffler set up after the running is sorted. On these stockers- mixing and matching body parts from Specials to Standards oft times miss the mark, yeah, they can work but there's usually something askew to the eye. That being said, there's plenty of improvements that can be done that doesn't change the character. They are what they are.

 

[weekendrider]

From my first glance it looks like I've got (obviously) aftermarket rear shocks,
Yes

handlebars, I don't think so. The plane of the master cylinder is correct. Parallel to the bar. The specials master cylinder was angled to level it on angled special bars.

mufflers (anyone have any idea on what mufflers are?). I can't give you a brand name but they look to be single walled (desired it lets the motor flow better)
With removable baffles. So you can wrap or unwrap (the baffles) for desired noise level.


The seat is from a special, correct? At least its in good condition. I think it is a refoamed and covered correct pan. When you close it is it a tight fit or does it go down another 1/2 inch after it latches. The latch hook on the special seats was abit longer allowing that gap.

If anyone else sees non-stock arrangements I'd be curious to know. The chain guard is aftermarket with a fuller wrap. Which you might actually like. It will catch more of the
slung off lubricant.

Next step is to get a purchase order together for mikes xs.
I would forget Mikes and look to other sources for parts.

And for the important part, the pictures:

Along with 650skull's advice I'll add torque the head bolts to 30 lbs.
Check the drive sprocket torque. They are often loose and allow the oil to leak there.

 

[RPC3]

Thanks for the responses. I've got my battery on the way. I'll get the carbs inspected to see how things are looking there. The seat does move about a half inch more once closed and is a tight fit, so special pan it sounds like.

On the brakes, would I just be better off buying a m/c rebuild kit, new stainless/braidrd line, and potentially a caliper rebuild? If there's a high chance of being able to salvage the components that are there then I'd understand, but most threads allude to replacing the brake hose anyway, and I guess I'd rather just rebuild the part once and be done then take everything apart and put it back together only to have it still fail.

Also, seems like quite a few hints that mikesxs isn't the most reliable source for quality. EBay is always a roll of the dice, is there a more preferred site for rebuild kits and parts?

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[XSLeo]

The old rubber lines are rotted from the inside. This rot can travel around in the fluid and plug up things.
Best to replace them. The braided stainless steel is a good option. They expand much less than rubber lines, this transfers more of your effort on the lever to the caliper.
Rebuilding a caliper isn't hard. Very few parts. Often the parts can be reused. Getting it apart and cleaning often is all they need.
On the master cylinder, there are rebuild kits available. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I might suggest replacing it with one with a smaller bore size. The stock 14 mm works ok but using one with a 11 mm will improve your braking.
On the kits and parts you need Mike's can be iffy. His rubber parts seem to have the most issues. I've had good luck with most of the parts I've bought there. 650central is a good place to shop. He gets some of his parts from Mike's, the ones with an XS in the item number.
Talking to MMM is well worth the time it takes to call in an order. He can steer you to the best parts for what you want to do.
Leo

 

[tonyc]

Good advise Leo. I second MMM.

 

[RPC3]

After some family obligations (happy Easter all) I had some time to start taking things apart a bit. Took the front caliper and master cylinder off. Crystallized brake fluid all over where the perch is, so I think at a minimum I'll need to rebuild the M/C but as suggested I'll use some new brake lines as well. For now I just plan on cleaning and reassembling the caliper.

Here is what I found in when taking everything apart (see pics). Go figure that I finally have a reason to use my snap ring pliers and..they're not long enough to take out the snap ring by what couldn't be more than a few mm's. I did inlcude one pic of the spring with a round disc on top of it; I didn't see any rebuild kits that had that, nor did I have the steel washer that is included in the rebuild kits. Might need an order of assembally when it comes time to put evertyhing back together (I believe mine was dust boot-->snap ring-->plunger-->round disc-->spring with the rubber cap to it).



Also threw in a pic of each side cover (removed). 15A fuse was blown but everything else looked okayish.

 

[Scrambled]

The blown fuse probably means you have a short , you have some bare wire somewhere .

 

[RPC3]

Spent the week reading up as much as posdible, reading the clymer, and working on my work space to help make it more user friendly. I've got my master cylinder and caliper apart and both ready to be rebuilt, but my caliper piston had some pretty deep pitting so I've ordered a new one along with new pads and shims.

Plan for the rest of the weekend is to get new plugs in, the battery in, and fresh fuel to see if it can run. Quickly out spending my budget so I need to reign myself in and only spend where it's needed. Too easy to justify spending for things that are good to have but not 100% necessary

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[5twins]

Your main fuse should be a 20A. If it was only a 15, that may be why it blew.

 

[gggGary]

Looks like you are off to a good start with good plans. We gotta like a guy that starts with the BRAKES!

 

[payaso13]

Checking the electrics is a good idea as said already...when I got mine rear brake light ground was corroded along with some wires on harness going thru headlight bucket holes had bare wires...doing better than me though I still haven't got a manual....just use friends

 

[RPC3]

While I'm waiting for the new caliper piston to arrive I decided it was time to see if I could get it to run. Put in new plugs and gas, a new fuse, cleaned the battery ground, and went for it. It burped a few times but wouldn't start so I walked away for a couple min, came back and was able to get it to catch once, twice, and finally came to life and settled in to a 1k idle pretty reliably (from what I've read, a tad low on the idle), but hey it works!

A few observations:

Small oil leak coming from what might be the drive sprocket or near threre, was about even with the driver left foot peg

With the bike in neutral and not running I can turn the lights on and off. When the bike is running the lights are Perma on. And they do get brighter when I rev....battery is brand new, but obvious I y something else is needing a replacement.

No Grey smoke, no white smoke...actually looked good

Is it just me, or are bullet connectors near impossible to put back together without removing the plastic protector coating? Guess I need to learn how to clean up wiring better.

Anyway, more to come but thanks for the help thusfar. Hope to have the brake back together next week and a test drive next weekend.

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