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New Rotor, No magnetism, No charge.
- Thread starter benjammin
- Start date
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- Tags
- electrical
When you did the jumper of green wire to ground, did you rev the engine up to 3000+ rpm? If you did not rev the engine up, you would not see any increase in voltage at the battery.
I just got a couple ideas of things to try. But I can't start my bike tonight because I live in town, don't have a garage, and my bike is really loud. I think my neighbors might hate me a little bit for it already so when I get a chance I will update you guys. If anybody else has some suggestions to try I'm open to anything.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Thanks for the help everyone.
Your next thing to try is what I mentioned in post #13. You don't need to start the engine for that test. Testing for the correct current, will tell you if you have a working electro-magnet or not.
Brian902
XS650 Junkie
Ben you have more technical advise hear than a patient having heart surgery.
There has got to be something very simple that went wrong.
Bike looks clean and well done, and you obviously are mechanically inclined.
Keep looking, simple things can be the hardest to find.
By the way, what rectifier/regulator combination are you running?
What happened to start you down this road?
It was running for how many miles before this started happening?
Grounds are super important, like between battery box/frame, frame/engine, battery/frame, battery/engine, rec/reg/frame, etc.
Simple things like a layer of paint, wire pulled out of a connector end not crimped or soldered, old key switch with sloppy or dirty connection points.
Also voltage readings between when a bike is running and not may very because of poor wiring, grounds and corrosion.
Food for thought.
Don't give. You will find it.
I spent 3 weeks looking for an electrical error on a Kaw ZX1400 electrical system with a no fire error on the computer only to find it was a mechanical error. Crankshaft pulse rotor was broken, a piece of metal attached to the crank that has 20 fingers and 5 were broken, computer didn't like that but wasn't programmed to tell anyone. Stupid computers.
There has got to be something very simple that went wrong.
Bike looks clean and well done, and you obviously are mechanically inclined.
Keep looking, simple things can be the hardest to find.
By the way, what rectifier/regulator combination are you running?
What happened to start you down this road?
It was running for how many miles before this started happening?
Grounds are super important, like between battery box/frame, frame/engine, battery/frame, battery/engine, rec/reg/frame, etc.
Simple things like a layer of paint, wire pulled out of a connector end not crimped or soldered, old key switch with sloppy or dirty connection points.
Also voltage readings between when a bike is running and not may very because of poor wiring, grounds and corrosion.
Food for thought.
Don't give. You will find it.
I spent 3 weeks looking for an electrical error on a Kaw ZX1400 electrical system with a no fire error on the computer only to find it was a mechanical error. Crankshaft pulse rotor was broken, a piece of metal attached to the crank that has 20 fingers and 5 were broken, computer didn't like that but wasn't programmed to tell anyone. Stupid computers.
May have a new problem or possibly getting closer to finding the old problem, I have no idea. I bought a different fuse box, all new fuses, and did some rewiring. Now, when I touch the ground wire to the negative battery terminal the bike turns on. Without the key in, and with the killswitch engaged. Here is a pic. Probably hard to tell buttt... Black/Red wire is from the battery to the fuse box, then back out through the 20amp fuse. 10amp fuses are for everything else. Obviously something is not right. Any ideas?
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Looks like a good clean up of the fuse box area.
The red wire comes from the battery goes to the fuse box and then on to the key switch with a branch to the voltage regulator. So you might try unplugging the voltage regulator, see if anything changes.
View attachment 22986
It then comes back from the key switch as a brown wire, that brown wire is what should power the rest of the fuses. So my guess is your hot side bus is powering the rest of the fuses instead of them being fed by the brown coming back from a main switch. you would need to clip or break the bus between the 20 amp and the rest of of the fuses.
The red wire comes from the battery goes to the fuse box and then on to the key switch with a branch to the voltage regulator. So you might try unplugging the voltage regulator, see if anything changes.
View attachment 22986
It then comes back from the key switch as a brown wire, that brown wire is what should power the rest of the fuses. So my guess is your hot side bus is powering the rest of the fuses instead of them being fed by the brown coming back from a main switch. you would need to clip or break the bus between the 20 amp and the rest of of the fuses.
I just want to say that the diagram brian902 posted in post #8 is for the 70-79 bikes. The 80 up are different. The 70-79 work as Brian described but the 80 don't. Power goes to the brushes on the brown wire, it comes from the brushes on the green wire to the reg/rec. No black wire to ground.
The 70-79 reg controlled the power flow through the rotor before the rotor, The 80 up control the power after the rotor.
Benjammin, If you have battery voltage at the brown wire to the brushes, jumpering the green wire to ground should get the alternator to increase the output. One other test would be to run a separate jumper from battery positive to the brown wire brush. Another jumper from green to ground. This bypasses not just the reg but the entire electrical wiring.
If this gets a charge you have problems between the battery and brushes, brushes to reg/rec. Battery to brown wire at the reg/rec.
With the key on check battery voltage. This is the battery voltage to compare too. Now check the voltage on the brown wire. Is more than about .2 or .3 less you have issues in the wiring. Most likely dirty contacts in the key switch or a weak connection somewhere in the wiring. Any place the brown wire has a connector it could be loose and dirty.
The reg/rec uses the brown wire as a place to read battery voltage. Any weak connections on the brown wire or ground on the reg/rec will read incorrectly.
The brown wire to the brushes carry current, Any weak connections can't carry the current.
I use the same fuse block. Irregardless of wire color, the bolt on the side of the fuse block is power in. On mine I have a red wire from the battery to an inline fuse holder with a 20 amp fuse. From this fuse holder to the main switch. From the main switch to the bolt on the fuse block. Then each fuse on the block goes to each circuit I want.
Your black with red on it wire should go to the bolt on the side, power in. The black wire on the post, where does that go?
Use the diagram gggGary posted or look for an 83 diagram in the "Some Wiring Diagrams" thread.
Leo
The 70-79 reg controlled the power flow through the rotor before the rotor, The 80 up control the power after the rotor.
Benjammin, If you have battery voltage at the brown wire to the brushes, jumpering the green wire to ground should get the alternator to increase the output. One other test would be to run a separate jumper from battery positive to the brown wire brush. Another jumper from green to ground. This bypasses not just the reg but the entire electrical wiring.
If this gets a charge you have problems between the battery and brushes, brushes to reg/rec. Battery to brown wire at the reg/rec.
With the key on check battery voltage. This is the battery voltage to compare too. Now check the voltage on the brown wire. Is more than about .2 or .3 less you have issues in the wiring. Most likely dirty contacts in the key switch or a weak connection somewhere in the wiring. Any place the brown wire has a connector it could be loose and dirty.
The reg/rec uses the brown wire as a place to read battery voltage. Any weak connections on the brown wire or ground on the reg/rec will read incorrectly.
The brown wire to the brushes carry current, Any weak connections can't carry the current.
I use the same fuse block. Irregardless of wire color, the bolt on the side of the fuse block is power in. On mine I have a red wire from the battery to an inline fuse holder with a 20 amp fuse. From this fuse holder to the main switch. From the main switch to the bolt on the fuse block. Then each fuse on the block goes to each circuit I want.
Your black with red on it wire should go to the bolt on the side, power in. The black wire on the post, where does that go?
Use the diagram gggGary posted or look for an 83 diagram in the "Some Wiring Diagrams" thread.
Leo
Leo I think he has the other side of the power(red) going to the main(inlet). Powering not only the 20 amp fuse but the 10 amps also. I had to blow the page up to like 300% to follow them so this is a fuzzy visual deduction.
But follows his everything has power problem? He has wired the switch out?
But follows his everything has power problem? He has wired the switch out?
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Brian902
XS650 Junkie
Right on Leo and of course we have no idea what parts of what bikes this bike is made from.
Probably the main reason so many of these guys have so many problems with electrics.
These days there is nothing original any more so it's a real crap shoot when giving advice.
This diagram maybe a little more suitable.
Probably the main reason so many of these guys have so many problems with electrics.
These days there is nothing original any more so it's a real crap shoot when giving advice.
This diagram maybe a little more suitable.
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On that fuse block power comes in on the bolt, this powers all 6 of the fuse slots. The black wire with the red on it comes off a red wire from the harness. If this red wire comes straight from the battery it will be hot all the time. By hooking this to one fuse in the new block it sends power out on the rest of the fuses. You have bypassed the key switch, that's why the bike powers up when you hook the negative battery cable.
If so you need to hook an inline fuse holder to this red wire. Around there some where is another red wire that goes up to the key switch. Hook this to the other side of the fuse.
Now there is a brown wire that comes down from the key switch, this powered the other 3 fuses in the stock fuse block. Hook this to the bolt.
If you look on the diagram gggGary posted, look at the fuses. A red wire comes from the battery to one fuse of the stock fuse block, it then runs up to the key switch, from the key switch it comes back down to the fuse block and powers the rest of the fuses.
You have to duplicate this with your new block as I described.
Study the diagram, you will see how thing go.
Leo
If so you need to hook an inline fuse holder to this red wire. Around there some where is another red wire that goes up to the key switch. Hook this to the other side of the fuse.
Now there is a brown wire that comes down from the key switch, this powered the other 3 fuses in the stock fuse block. Hook this to the bolt.
If you look on the diagram gggGary posted, look at the fuses. A red wire comes from the battery to one fuse of the stock fuse block, it then runs up to the key switch, from the key switch it comes back down to the fuse block and powers the rest of the fuses.
You have to duplicate this with your new block as I described.
Study the diagram, you will see how thing go.
Leo
Leo are you saying you don't have the 20 amp fuse in the fuse block but in an inline fuse holder? Could I make it work without one of those or would you suggest me buying one? I thought about doing that already but I was going to see if I could just use the same fuse block for everything.
Brian, he states his bike is an 83, Yes parts do get swapped around. Unless they say that parts have been swapped I'll assume things are stock for the year they state.
Your second diagram is right.
benjamming, notice how the brown wire feeds battery voltage to both the reg/rec and one brush, a green wire from the other brush back to the reg/rec.
Leo
Your second diagram is right.
benjamming, notice how the brown wire feeds battery voltage to both the reg/rec and one brush, a green wire from the other brush back to the reg/rec.
Leo
BWHAHAHAHAHA It would help you if you stuck to wire color red on red, brown on brown etc. You can usually get a good selection of colored wire for these projects for free from ranges, washing machines, refrigerators, scrap cars, old reefer units, let your imagination work here. Go Mad Max on it. Big Boxes aren't the only answer.
Now unhook that black wire(untaped unmarked) you have going to the main.
Get an inline fuse. It doesn't have to be the new plastic blades, an old spring loaded plastic capsule for a glass tube will work fine. Billions and billions of vehicles made it down the road fine with these it is just cheaper to manufacture plastic and metal blades.
When you get your fuse holder wire the red wire you had the black on to one side and the red wire wire that has the black with red tape on it to other end. Now you should have power to the switch. Turn the key on and you should have power to one of the two brown wires(strike a ground wire across them you will find the hot one) you unhooked from the original fuse box. This side powers the main line (the post where the black wire is now). The other brown connects to the blade fuse.
There ya go. Blow by blow putting your fingers to it instruction.
Now unhook that black wire(untaped unmarked) you have going to the main.
Get an inline fuse. It doesn't have to be the new plastic blades, an old spring loaded plastic capsule for a glass tube will work fine. Billions and billions of vehicles made it down the road fine with these it is just cheaper to manufacture plastic and metal blades.
When you get your fuse holder wire the red wire you had the black on to one side and the red wire wire that has the black with red tape on it to other end. Now you should have power to the switch. Turn the key on and you should have power to one of the two brown wires(strike a ground wire across them you will find the hot one) you unhooked from the original fuse box. This side powers the main line (the post where the black wire is now). The other brown connects to the blade fuse.
There ya go. Blow by blow putting your fingers to it instruction.
IT IS CHARGING! Must've been a problem with the fusebox/wiring or the other wires I replaced. Thanks so much to all the people who helped. You gentlemen are heros and this website is a rare gem of the internet. I'm so stoked. Too bad there is a tornado warning, i would be going on a long ride right now.
ippytattoo
Just another grumpy old hack.
You have a loose connection somewhere would be my best guess. In your pic I just see where the wires were twisted together and taped is this correct? That would be where I would start looking. It is always best to solder and heat shrink connections.
