pulling motor and other questions

[ron bayless]

My bike has 30 years of crud on it.Eventually i will pull the motor and do a proper cleanup.I have many things to do first like get it running.Do the carbs come off before it can be pulled.I have much carb cleaner. Are carb kits mostly a gasket and cleaning it right.I never stray from stock jets.I have ordered a manual.Are the carbs supposed to have some sort of airbox with filters attached to them? Does the bike have one throttle and choke cable and the carbs linked with a rodtype linkage? Some of this will be answered when i get the motor out.How hard is it to get out? The online manual says to remove the clutch,case covers and other things that seem unneccessary.
I will replace the swingarm bushings,steering head bearings while the motor is out. the 2 exhaust gaskets should be fairly generic.I do not have the right equipment to polish the cases but do want to.Very tedious at best.
My chain was removed before i got the bike.I still do not know what kind of warning about the motor that might be.The left casecover is loose,so they could slip it off the sprocket.From that point to get it off the bike the rear wheel would have to be pulled.I still think it would be looped around the swingarm. But a nonmasterlink chain would have to be removeable without breaking it. MIKES XS seems to have everything.I have heard good and bad about the company.Is there another place you all use?Thanks for any input.

 

[MaxPete]

Hi Ron:
I haven't had to pull an engine (yet) and I also have a lot of polishing to do myself (and there are real experts on that topic as well) - but as I understand it, the conventional wisdom is that the easy way to remove the engine is not to lift it out of the bike but rather to:
- remove the exhaust (this is just a nut and bolt job);
- remove the big conical nut on the back side of the cylinders which is actually a cover for the cam chain tensioner mechanism;
NOTE - don't remove the tensioner itself - just the big cover/nut;
- remove the carbs (slip the throttle cable and fuel line(s) off, loosen the clamps and wiggle the carbs backwards and be gentle (the rubber mounting boots are old and you don't want to wreck them) - the carbs are linked together and come off in one piece;
- disconnect all of the electrical connections to the engine;
- loosen all of the engine mounting bolts and remove as many as you can - especially from the RH side of the engine;
- lay the bike down on its RIGHT side on a piece of carpet or old mattress etc;
- remove the remaining engine mounting bolts;
- lift the bike back up off the engine which winds up on its side on the pad.

NOTE: others please correct if I got any of that wrong or missed anything.

To answer your other queries:
-YES - there is an air box that goes on the open mouths of the carbs;
- if you don't have an air box - either try to find one on-line or use pod filters and the best ones are UNIPOD brand - NOT the corrugated K&N brand;
- the carbs come off in one piece and are linked by a simple little piece of angle iron as well as a rotating rod that goes between the throttle shafts and fuel balance / cross-feed hose;
- there are either two (early bikes - I think up to 1975) or just one throttle cable (on 1976 and later bikes);
- I am not aware of a choke cable - all of the XS650s I have seen have a choke lever on the LH side of the left carb or a little push-pull button in the same spot - and the lever or button operates BOTH carbs through a linkage;
- all XS650s came with a master-link drive chain so removing the swing arm is not necessary to R&R the chain - BUT - if you switch to a modern O-Ring chain you must either rivet the final joining link or remove the swing arm to install it;
- there is an excellent carb guide on this site - I suggest you download it and read it before digging into your carbs;
- the Gurus do not recommend carb kits but rather buying just the parts you need;
Having said that, when I started in on my '76, I bought a carb kit (before I knew better) and it had everything I needed to rebuild my carbs and the bike now runs great. I guess the issue is that the carb kits are generic and have a lot of extra stuff that you do NOT need and so you can save some money buy just buying the parts individually.

SOURCES of PARTS
The best source of parts is this forum. Just post what you need - and wait a day or two. There are several folks on the forum who have huge stocks of parts and buy and sell all the time. They watch for Wanted postings (be sure to use the red tag) and respond quickly. I have gotten some tremendous bargains doing just that.

Be sure to use the Private Message function (aka "Start Conversation" on this forum) for your wheeling and dealing. To initiate a message - either use the Conversation tab in the upper right corner of the screen or simply click on the person's name - and a window will pop up.

If you can get OEM parts - those are always best and even though the XS650 has been out of production for 33 years, new old stock (NOS) parts are still around for sale and in any event, a lot of the nuts and bolts etc. used on our old bikes were, or still are, being used on other Yamaha models - even some current models in showrooms today. Also, nearly all of the fasteners are simply standard metric items and can be bought at hardware stores or on-line at places such as McMaster.com. Just be sure to buy the highest grade fasteners (I.e. strongest) you can get and torque them technology spec as given in the service manual (these bike vibrate and things domooosen).

Opinions vary widely on MikesXS - I have done fine with them, but others have had problems in the past. The word is that they are under new management who are trying hard to clean up the problems and improve customer service. The difficulties mainly seem to come from "soft" or "rubber" parts like seals and o-rings rather than hard metal mechanical parts.

BOATS.net is another good source as is DiscountYamahaParts.com and they have the complete parts schematics on-line so you find the original Yamaha part numbers for darned near anything on the bike.

XS650 Performance is also well-regarded as far as I know - but I haven't used them yet. The British firm YamBits is also supposed to be great and they are actually reproducing some hard to find parts that are reportedly identical to the original 1970-80s stuff from MamaYama.

USEFUL TIP: the original Yamaha part number is a very valuable piece of data.
Once you have the original Yamaha part number - simply enter it into your web browser search window (just the number - no words) and you may be amazed to find that somebody somewhere has got that exact part for sale for just a few dollars. I found a desirable late model long one-piece clutch push rod - still in its 37 year old OEM package - that way and got it for $7 shipped to my US mailing address. I also bought a couple of NOS starter hairpin springs (you'll find out all about them in due course I am sure) using the same method for around $12 each - which was great because it is widely known that the OEM springs are better than the aftermarket ones.

Anyhow - your best resource BY FAR is this forum. There are people here who have forgotten more about the XS650 than the guys who designed and built it - and they are very active on the forum because they love the bike and like helping others enjoy their bikes too. I could NEVER have gotten my red 1976 Standard (Lucille) running without this forum.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[aldo5468]

My '82 Heritage Special had a choke cable - I dunno how many models/years Yamaha built them this way.

 

[ron bayless]

what a fantastic answer to my questions.I have bookmarked it.I have reluctantly pulled engines before.If you ever have to pull an engine on a cb650 dont do it.Just sell the bike and move on.Extremely difficult.And I have found all these old jap bikes you lay down and lift off the motor.Especially honda 4s.Good to know about the masterlink chain.I have owned about 30 motorcycles.I had a list of favorites to own.kz 1000.honda 4 cylinder goldwing.honda inline 4.suzuki inline 4.motoguzzi v7 sport.The original not the joke they make now.And a triumph bonneville.But the xs650 was always on my mind because they out bonnevilled the bonneville.plus i rode a brandnew 72 electric start in late 1971 and said someday i want to own one of these.While this whole project is a pain in the ass, I love it.my buy list minus guzzi is complete.

 

[MaxPete]

There ya go. You'll have issues (like those danged seat bolts.......)...but as WER said, if it was easy, everyone would be riding a 40+ year old motorcycle.

Choke cable - interesting Aldo. I've never seen one of those on a Special.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[weekendrider]

Whoa there hoss, that quote credit goes to mrtwowheels. The cabled choke was oem on '82 and '83 Heritage Specials. Along with the bizillion spoke wheels, small side covers and the little XS650 emblems on the cam covers.

 

[ron bayless]

I addressed the issue to mr2wheels. my bike doesnt have a choke.that was a what if question.Yall keep calling my bike a special.i dont think it is.unless all 78s are specials.I remember my first grade teacher said i was special.

I was wrong.I took the tank off.There is a lever by the left carb to push down and choke

 

[MaxPete]

....we're all special, each of us in own special ways, my dears....

 

[ron bayless]

I remember a sign in front of my house that said caution slow children at play

 

[MaxPete]

Aren't those words out of order?

 

[kshansen]

There ya go. You'll have issues (like those danged seat bolts.......)...but as WER said, if it was easy, everyone would be riding a 40+ year old motorcycle.

Choke cable - interesting Aldo. I've never seen one of those on a Special.

Cheers,

Pete

Yep, my 1982 Heritage has one of those, thumb lever on the left handle bar.

 

[9226356]

Yep, my 1982 Heritage has one of those, thumb lever on the left handle bar.

I thought the pull knob was cooler. And would have been much cheaper to manufacture and maintain

 

[MaxPete]

Yup - but the marketing brainiacs and beauty police run rampant at every vehicle manufacturer - that is why, for example, vehicles like the Pontiac Aztec and Chevy Malibu Maxx are built.

 

[weekendrider]

Yall keep calling my bike a special.i dont think it is.unless all 78s are specials.

You could just take our word, but the major tells are the mag wheels (standards had spokes) and the forward angled shocks (standards run pretty much at a straight up/down line). Granted the wheels could have been swapped, a rear disc brake rigged, but that shock angle is a fairly hard fact. Not to say someone couldn't but
999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 wouldn't. You might be special nuff to get that one out of a million, I dunno.

I thought the pull knob was cooler. And would have been much cheaper to manufacture and maintain

The pull rod choke with a full and half positions were better than the tabbed on/off choke of earlier models. I always felt there was a stumble on a cold motor between the half and no choke position. The variable position cable fixed that. Didn't stop me from ripping that ugly cable off and installing a rod and balls though. Cool rulz.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I saw a sign in front of a Kansas public school that said "Drug free zone".

Further down the road was another sign:

"Resume taking drugs"...

 

[ron bayless]

You could just take our word, but the major tells are the mag wheels (standards had spokes) and the forward angled shocks (standards run pretty much at a straight up/down line). Granted the wheels could have been swapped, a rear disc brake rigged, but that shock angle is a fairly hard fact. Not to say someone couldn't but
999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 wouldn't. You might be special nuff to get that one out of a million, I dunno.


The pull rod choke with a full and half positions were better than the tabbed on/off choke of earlier models. I always felt there was a stumble on a cold motor between the half and no choke position. The variable position cable fixed that. Didn't stop me from ripping that ugly cable off and installing a rod and balls though. Cool rulz.

yeah well, i think I might know a little bit more about it than you.and the other million you spoke of.OK.Damn.Its a special.It doesnt have a special seat or special handlebars.I guess someone changed that out.I am posting now pictures of my ignition switch i just removed.The key in it will not turn it,even when out of the bike and taken apart.. Ckearly i will need another one.The ones at mikes xs and or ebay do not look like this one.perhaps their switch fits inside this stock housing but not likely since that is where the key goes in and the switch is nonfunctional.I might just buy the switch and if it wont go into the stock mounting between the instruments mount it somewhere else somehow.Or maybe just use a toggle switch.no.that wont work.here are pictures.even mr 2 wheels is allowed to respond.

 

[xjwmx]

I saw a sign in front of a Kansas public school that said "Drug free zone".

Further down the road was another sign:

"Resume taking drugs"...

That would make complete sense in Co, and now, Ca.

 

[Bob Kelly III]

Be careful of your bucket type carb cleaning stuff there are rubber parts inside the carbs that will desolve in that stuff....
complete and total disassembly is needed with that carb cleaner !
.....
2M : LOL scary ! LOL
.....
Bob.......

 

[weekendrider]

yeah well, i think I might know a little bit more about it than you

I am sure you do.

 

[ron bayless]

I know that friend.I was in the honda 4 cylinder wing group for awhile.A good rebuild kit costs $180. Detailed instruction and videos, all always say dont just dunk them, Dissasemble and then clean. Plus the orings and rubber parts of a new kit are not rubber,but viton instead.Reisistant to the ethanol in the corn gas crap.i am not sure what susbstance a yamaha kit is made of.But reusing old gaskets and seals is a no go on any carb,plus the originals were never supposed to be exposed to our chemicals in fuel nowdays.