Safety Relay gone bad?

[xs650dude63]

With the motor running I inserted the probes into the back side of the stator plug and checked the three white wires I checked 1 and 2 2 and 3 and 1 and 3, since I only got about 7ac volts instead of 10 to 11ac, curly says my stator is grounding out.

 

[53xs650]

xs650dude, I have safety relay I will give You if You want it , Send me a pm with your shipping info and I will send it to you.

 

[xs650dude63]

I was thinking, the reason why the starter is working while the bike is running would be because the stator is only putting out 7 volts instead of 10 or 11, at the white wires and since it takes 4.5 volts to trip the relay, maybe not enough volts are getting to the relay, I don't know, just a thought.

 

[Brassneck]

I am not exactly sure how the safety Relay is tripped, but I think it get's tripped by the stator... which cuts off the starter relay...so with a low output stator, your thinking sounds plausible to me.

Here's some interesting reading on aftermarket safety relays and bypass options:
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27710

 

[xs650dude63]

I was wondering, when I bought this bike the PO, had the wiring in the headlight all taken apart, I will take a picture and try to post it, there are about 4 loose wires, if I remember correctly 2 are yellow, one black and one green, could this be the reason why i'm getting 7 volts off my 3 white stator wires instead of 10 to 11?

 

[gggGary]

No those wires all plug into the headlight connector. did you try running it with that yellow stator wire unhooked? what do you get when you ohm test the whites to ground?

 

[gggGary]

PS the yellow wire is what closes the safety relay, it is a separate coil in the stator that ties to the other 3 coils, a 4th leg to the Y winding if you will.

These diagrams are not prefect but mostly show what is going on.


Your bike (late charging) it does not show the yellow, a forth coil that ties to the center of the wye.



older model diagrams.

 

[53xs650]

XS650DUDE, I mailed the safety relay out to you.

 

[xs650dude63]

Thanks 53xs650, white wires to ground I got, 01.5 01.6 01.5

1.3 lead test

Hey gggGary, im almost more concerned about why i am only getting 7 volts off the white wires instead of 10 to 11, could it be I have a bad stator since the rotor is rewound?

 

[weekendrider]

Any one of the white wires to ground should give you an "I".
Your results are showing a short to ground.
Here are a couple of pics.
One lead clip/clamped/fixed to the stator housing the other to one of the white wires.
The first pic shows my connection to the stator housing is good

 

[xs650dude63]

ok, I went out and bought me a better multi tester, my results.

engine running 8.6 volts 8.0 volts 8.2 volts off the white wires from the backside of the plug.

engine off plug unplugged, probe Ohm test 0.2 Ohms
prongs 1 and 2....01.3 ohms prongs 2 and 3....01.0ohms prongs 1 and 3....01.1 ohms

disconnect yellow wire
1 and 2....0.9 ohms 2 and 3....0.9 ohms 1 and 3...0.9 ohms

White to ground test
prong 1....000.1 prong 2....000.1 prong 3....000.2

 

[xs650dude63]

I re-did my ground test like the way you did it in the pictures, alligator clip from black probe to alternator housing I got 000.0 readings on all three white wire prongs, no infinity, is that the same reading?

one exception, the alternator housing was on the motorcycle and yours was off does that matter?

I completely removed the alternator housing from the motorcycle, i'm getting 000.5 from each of the white wire prongs.

I noticed the wires were taped up so I removed the tape to see if there were damage to the wires and it appears not.

If my alternator is grounding out, what am I looking for, what could possibly be grounding it out?

 

[gggGary]

What does the meter show with the leads not touching anything? you should get the same reading when you do the ground test. Since the stator has been off before it's possible it was put on with the crankcase pin not in the slot in the stator housing. This causes the rotor to rub on the stator core, if you look at the walls inside the stator you will see the rub marks. That can ground out a winding. It does sound like you have a shorted to ground stator. This does happen "sometimes". You could remove the stator from it's housing and look for anything obvious but the usual course is to replace it. When shopping for a replacement you need to get one from an 80 to 84 model with the drilled mount for the pickup brush. Often they are found with the pickups still on it which is fine also. A couple of pics of your parts might help us......

 

[xs650dude63]

yep, I made the mistake of put the alternator housing on crooked, when I tried to start it I saw sparks, when I removed it there were scratches around the inside.

What is the pickup brush, is the the black oval part, magneto? Would this one work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-YAMAHA...adbdf3a&pid=100033&rk=3&rkt=8&sd=371598998607

It looks just like mine.

 

[gggGary]

yeah but do you want to buy parts from a guy with "jail tats"?? Actually mr monkey claw is a good vender. Post up a wanted on here see what pops. Or PM me I can grab a good looking one, and test it for you..... to your door $60

 

[grizld1]

That's a generous offer, Dude--go for it.

 

[gggGary]

Replacement Check timing on your existing set up. Note where it is at idle and advance bring the crank so the rotor mark is at the TDC on your existing stator frame, change stators. How do the marks compare? if needed scribe the old mark location on the new stator timing plate, add that same offset to the advance mark and make a second scribe, check timing again. Using the scribe marks if they were needed or; Install new stator find TDC with a piston stop, a bunch of threads on how to do that, compare to the TDC mark on your new stator. Not that hard to do really.

 

[5twins]

I thought the timing plate was slotted and held on by a screw? Can't you just move it if it doesn't line up?

 

[grizld1]

Gary, you have a talent for cutting to the chase. I never thought of that--if you know that timing plate position was right on the old stator, line up the marks, lock the crank, install new stator, line up plate. Beats hell out of playing with piston stop and dial indicator! But it's that "if" that could be troublesome.

 

[gggGary]

Have to do some looking (scratches head) he's got an 80 I think, it may not have any timing marks at all, the pickups had those one year? screw-vits so you couldn't adjust timing courtesy of the EPA? Then they got smart, or mechanic's and owner's howling sent them back to screws.

OK I looked, all the early, up to 79 had the timing marks stamped right on the stator frame, all the electronic ignition 80 on, have them on a moveable plate. (it came with paint on the clamp screw.)
I have a nice late model stator without pickups on it.