sorry Bob I wasn't aware that you had already told us that somewhere ? i must have missed that post
I completely understand you not wanting to tear the engine down mid Summer
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That Wrrrr Noise....
- Thread starter Bob Kelly III
- Start date
sorry Bob I wasn't aware that you had already told us that somewhere ? i must have missed that post
I completely understand you not wanting to tear the engine down mid Summer
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
to answer a question asked a while back, what's it sound like when the idle is turned down..... it is still there just lower in pitch
and sounds more like a chain dragging over metal like a cam chain on a can guide.... but their both in good shape I had the cylinders off and checked already..... I can't find anything wrong with the machine at all..... but the noise persists !
....
2M..... whatcha' mean UH ? from what you and 5 twins were saying it sounds normal or did I misunderstand what you meant ?
.....
Bob.......
and sounds more like a chain dragging over metal like a cam chain on a can guide.... but their both in good shape I had the cylinders off and checked already..... I can't find anything wrong with the machine at all..... but the noise persists !
....
2M..... whatcha' mean UH ? from what you and 5 twins were saying it sounds normal or did I misunderstand what you meant ?
.....
Bob.......
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Peanut.... Sorry I don't think I did .... I kind'a left ya all hanging without that info I appoligise for that , it just slipped my mind....
I have been hunting for the cause of that sound for a long time now, sense I got the bile running infact....
and Now after hearing Many other xs650's running I have come to the conclusion .... it's not right !
so I'll pull the side plate again when the weather turns bad..... or sometime soon
but the Pipe to the ear showed me it's right over the clutch ......
I guess I'll make preparations to tear into it and see what I can find ....Again !
.... the Right side is the loudest, the left side is not so loud ......
....
Bob.......
I have been hunting for the cause of that sound for a long time now, sense I got the bile running infact....
and Now after hearing Many other xs650's running I have come to the conclusion .... it's not right !
so I'll pull the side plate again when the weather turns bad..... or sometime soon
but the Pipe to the ear showed me it's right over the clutch ......
I guess I'll make preparations to tear into it and see what I can find ....Again !
.... the Right side is the loudest, the left side is not so loud ......
....
Bob.......
I'm wondering who snuck into my garage for the pic and when did I get a concrete floor? xjwmx?
Run it,
Q: what could go wrong?
A: nothing another engine wouldn't fix.
Q: what could go wrong?
A: nothing another engine wouldn't fix.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
oh soooo true Gary !!!! lol
.....
Bob
.....
Bob
The lighting is very good.
The last engine we tore into about a month ago had a strange noise in the very same area as yours. It turned out to be bad cam bearings on that side. They were in the process of self destructing and the outside area around them was full of metal chips. If you pull the advance housing off, you'll be able to plainly see if that's the problem. You'll see all the metal chips laying there.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
xjwmx: well look on the bright side...at least you have concrete to work on ! but that's about it ! LOL
for decades all I had was a dirt floor then I moved up to a dirt floor with a steel roof ! Now I have a small shop and it makes all those years of working in the yard seam distant ....like a bad dream....
it is soooo much better than trying to work on something outside when it's raining or snowing ! i'll find room in the shop for it some how ...Now ! LOL
.... even a tarp is better than no roof ! ..... and those hundreds of hours trying to find a bolt that disappeared into the dirt before I learned to put all the things that come off in a container of some sort because you never know when it will rain ! you discover real fast that the clutch plate becomes a great container, side plates too.... hell anything that is handy.
my hart bleeds for ya ! i know what it's like, and it's no where as pleasant as a simple garage ! unless you've been there you can't
appreciate it !......
it Will get better..... a shop will come, even a tiny one.... is better than doing that in the dirt......
hang in there !
.....
Bob..........
for decades all I had was a dirt floor then I moved up to a dirt floor with a steel roof ! Now I have a small shop and it makes all those years of working in the yard seam distant ....like a bad dream....
it is soooo much better than trying to work on something outside when it's raining or snowing ! i'll find room in the shop for it some how ...Now ! LOL
.... even a tarp is better than no roof ! ..... and those hundreds of hours trying to find a bolt that disappeared into the dirt before I learned to put all the things that come off in a container of some sort because you never know when it will rain ! you discover real fast that the clutch plate becomes a great container, side plates too.... hell anything that is handy.
my hart bleeds for ya ! i know what it's like, and it's no where as pleasant as a simple garage ! unless you've been there you can't
appreciate it !......
it Will get better..... a shop will come, even a tiny one.... is better than doing that in the dirt......
hang in there !
.....
Bob..........
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Thanks 5Twins ! .... when I had the head off a few months ago looking for the culprit I found no metal chips anywhere.....
no sign of even very fine metal ...
obviously I'm second guessing myself here and going over in my head what i did and what could be the cause of the noise
and I did adjust the cam chain tension.... it was a long way out..... Now I'm wondering if I did that simple adjustment wrong ...i dunno how I could though the doo hicky in the center is flush with the outer adjuster...so..... it's right.
I never did pull the Sump off ....that is one thing I wanted to do that did not get done.... seams like I have to pull the engine to get the sump off and I waited till I had the engine back in and buttoned up then discovered I can't get the bolts off with the engine in place ! like DUH ! now I find that out ! HAHAHAHA ! oh well....
.....
I have a gut feeling it is the clutch assembled wrong and that's the cause... but if it was something out of place and rubbing after almost 75 miles on the engine the sound would have virtually gone away as it wore the part down .... but it hasn't done that ....
from My perspective there is nothing wrong with the insides of the engine that I know of...at least at last check....
which leaves me only one way of thinking...it's the way it should be.... HOWEVER no other bike sounds exactly like this so something is wrong
and I must have simply Missed it ! so I need to go back into it....
question is do I pull the engine or not... LOL.... Clutch side cover first, then the engine if I don't find it there !
.....
I got my standard fuse box replaced with the newer fuzes now.... so that's taken care of, it's not pretty but it works !
....
Bob.......
no sign of even very fine metal ...
obviously I'm second guessing myself here and going over in my head what i did and what could be the cause of the noise
and I did adjust the cam chain tension.... it was a long way out..... Now I'm wondering if I did that simple adjustment wrong ...i dunno how I could though the doo hicky in the center is flush with the outer adjuster...so..... it's right.
I never did pull the Sump off ....that is one thing I wanted to do that did not get done.... seams like I have to pull the engine to get the sump off and I waited till I had the engine back in and buttoned up then discovered I can't get the bolts off with the engine in place ! like DUH ! now I find that out ! HAHAHAHA ! oh well....
.....
I have a gut feeling it is the clutch assembled wrong and that's the cause... but if it was something out of place and rubbing after almost 75 miles on the engine the sound would have virtually gone away as it wore the part down .... but it hasn't done that ....
from My perspective there is nothing wrong with the insides of the engine that I know of...at least at last check....
which leaves me only one way of thinking...it's the way it should be.... HOWEVER no other bike sounds exactly like this so something is wrong
and I must have simply Missed it ! so I need to go back into it....
question is do I pull the engine or not... LOL.... Clutch side cover first, then the engine if I don't find it there !
.....
I got my standard fuse box replaced with the newer fuzes now.... so that's taken care of, it's not pretty but it works !
....
Bob.......
That motor we were just into was fine for many, many years. Then all of a sudden, it wasn't. Shit happens on old motors like these. If the noise is coming from the top end why would you look at the clutch?
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
well it's coming from that side and the "pipe to the ear" says it's low on the clutch cover.....
but I'll double check just to be sure ..... if a cam bearing sounds like that then it's probably the cam ! I really have no idea at this point and I'm just guessing.... sound travels through metal very well .... could be I didn't check the cam I don't really remember , but I'll fire it up and check today just to be sure !
thanks !
.....
Bob.........
but I'll double check just to be sure ..... if a cam bearing sounds like that then it's probably the cam ! I really have no idea at this point and I'm just guessing.... sound travels through metal very well .... could be I didn't check the cam I don't really remember , but I'll fire it up and check today just to be sure !
thanks !
.....
Bob.........
Bob, I hope that you are using the steth that you have,
not just "the pipe", as it eliminates stray sounds and allows for a better auditory focus.
I remember a couple years ago when I first started up my '76, it made a horrible rattling sound which I was VERY confident came from the top cam chain area, but a bit of inspection revealed that it was actually the front brake pads rattling.
not just "the pipe", as it eliminates stray sounds and allows for a better auditory focus.
I remember a couple years ago when I first started up my '76, it made a horrible rattling sound which I was VERY confident came from the top cam chain area, but a bit of inspection revealed that it was actually the front brake pads rattling.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
LOL ! Really !
.... Ok I just did the Stephoscope routine on the engine.... top end, bottom end and trans....
the majority of the sound is coming from the clutch side plate and upper left cam bearing but doing the entire thing all over again and i just heard the clutch side plate as the noise maker and the cam bearings on both sides sound about the same ... no grinding but some Wrrrrr sound from them no doubt about that..... bottom end sounded good I could hear the pistons sliding up and down in the cylinders too ( never noticed that before) the stethoscope works very good !.....
all in all..... its in the clutch side plate ! sounds like the gear from the crank to the clutch basket..... i think that is where all this sound is coming from....
Now I wonder if there is a tolerance for these two gears , there should be.... and I bet ya their way too tight !
......
Bob.......
.... Ok I just did the Stephoscope routine on the engine.... top end, bottom end and trans....
the majority of the sound is coming from the clutch side plate and upper left cam bearing but doing the entire thing all over again and i just heard the clutch side plate as the noise maker and the cam bearings on both sides sound about the same ... no grinding but some Wrrrrr sound from them no doubt about that..... bottom end sounded good I could hear the pistons sliding up and down in the cylinders too ( never noticed that before) the stethoscope works very good !.....
all in all..... its in the clutch side plate ! sounds like the gear from the crank to the clutch basket..... i think that is where all this sound is coming from....
Now I wonder if there is a tolerance for these two gears , there should be.... and I bet ya their way too tight !
......
Bob.......
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
Yes Dude I did... I dug it out and Used it and your correct it does pin point it allot better especially with my Hard of hearing now days !!!!!
I zeroed in on the sound... it's gott'a be in that sideplate !!!!!!
......
Bob..........
I zeroed in on the sound... it's gott'a be in that sideplate !!!!!!
......
Bob..........
Glad you are making progress on the diagnosis, Dr. Bob.
Bob,
the sump filter inspection might just help with the evaluation, altho I will mention this experience I had a few weeks ago.
I pulled the sump filter to my '80, and found this:
Iznt THAT interesting?
However, on closer inspection, I found that the washers under the heads of the hold-down filter bolts were non-OEM. Hmmm......
I suspect that a PO had pulled the filter, set it down in his parts tray, then discovered that his washers had magically disappeared. But he didn't think to check out the magnets on the filter, and installed it with them hanging there.
the sump filter inspection might just help with the evaluation, altho I will mention this experience I had a few weeks ago.
I pulled the sump filter to my '80, and found this:
Iznt THAT interesting?
However, on closer inspection, I found that the washers under the heads of the hold-down filter bolts were non-OEM. Hmmm......
I suspect that a PO had pulled the filter, set it down in his parts tray, then discovered that his washers had magically disappeared. But he didn't think to check out the magnets on the filter, and installed it with them hanging there.
I once had a soft whirrr coming from the clutch direction. I decided to replace the needle bearing that lives deep inside the clutch. After removing the plates I went to undo the big nut and it came off with out any effort at all. The bearing looked perfect but I replaced it anyway. I concluded the whirrr was the result of the nut not being correctly tightened and the whirrr disappeared. So it is worth having a good inspection when you go in. Even delay reassembly a day just so you can double check everything.
When you remove the right side case be careful not to damage the gasket because it can be reused, also keep some inwards force on the kicker shaft so it does not pop out. If the oil is fresh, say 1 - 2 hundred miles I collect it and filter it through some fine cloth then put it back in the assembled engine.
Have fun but do not rush.
When you remove the right side case be careful not to damage the gasket because it can be reused, also keep some inwards force on the kicker shaft so it does not pop out. If the oil is fresh, say 1 - 2 hundred miles I collect it and filter it through some fine cloth then put it back in the assembled engine.
Have fun but do not rush.
