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the 9 millionth "it won't charge" thread.....
- Thread starter ClOckwOrk
- Start date
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- Tags
- electrical
thanks guys. I have one more test to do, not sure if it will help me much but i am going to try. i had 9v to the positive brush before. I am going to try removing the positive brush wire and checking voltage through it (before it powers the charging system) to see if the drop is because of the regulator or because of the rotor. In the pictures you show, are those two regulators run in parallel? or do i just go by the drawing with the three wire setup. seems too simple to be true 
thanks again guys
edit: checked the voltage at the positive brush wire (while unhooked from the rotor) and got 12.2 volts. screwed the wire back on and got 9. i think that pinpoints the problem to being the rotor. ordering up a rewind and a puller now.
thanks again guys
edit: checked the voltage at the positive brush wire (while unhooked from the rotor) and got 12.2 volts. screwed the wire back on and got 9. i think that pinpoints the problem to being the rotor. ordering up a rewind and a puller now.
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Wiring up the Radio Shack rectifiers is as simple as the pics and diagrams show it.
The link that 650Skull posted is for the later models.
I don't know how to do links like that. If you follow the link and at the top of the page click Charging systems, this takes you to the index for Charging Systems. In the list you can find much info on how to do the mods.
Solid State regulator $14.99 and Rectifier Replacement $6.58 Are the ones to read.
Easy to do and work great. On my 75 any rpm above 1800 rpm, even with lights on and you get 14.5 volts at the battery.
The old mechanical reg can when running at highway speeds the voltage creeps up to 15 volts or more. This over charges the battery and can boil the water out. Neither is good for the battery.
Converting as many lights to LED's helps too. The LED's draw very little current, so the current saved can go to keeping the battery charged.
Leo
The link that 650Skull posted is for the later models.
I don't know how to do links like that. If you follow the link and at the top of the page click Charging systems, this takes you to the index for Charging Systems. In the list you can find much info on how to do the mods.
Solid State regulator $14.99 and Rectifier Replacement $6.58 Are the ones to read.
Easy to do and work great. On my 75 any rpm above 1800 rpm, even with lights on and you get 14.5 volts at the battery.
The old mechanical reg can when running at highway speeds the voltage creeps up to 15 volts or more. This over charges the battery and can boil the water out. Neither is good for the battery.
Converting as many lights to LED's helps too. The LED's draw very little current, so the current saved can go to keeping the battery charged.
Leo
I will order the regulator from napa as soon as i have time off. work 9 days in a row but i did order a rotor and the puller. hopefully the rotor will solve the problem and i can slowly start upgrading the charging system and possibly do away with the points ignition as well. i'll keep ya posted once i get the rotor in it.
Well...... I got the charging issue figured out. the rotor was the problem. got it to charge 14.5 volts at 3k rpm.
however, on my first ride back out, the headlight melted a connection and caused a short, which first only blew the main fuse. i changed it and everything seemed ok. then suddenly the horn wouldn't turn off and the harness started melting. Once i got home (was just down the street) i took the headlight out and noticed the wire that was melted to it, and noticed that the harness was mostly ruined, along with a good section of the wiring for the handlebar switches. The heat from the headlight must have been enough to melt the wire(s) that were touching and cause them to short. Insted of trying to mend the harness i decided to order up a new harness from mikes XS.
pretty bummed out but its my own fault for not taking more care in the wiring behind the headlight. I think i'll drill the bucket out on the back side and slip a couple zip ties in there to keep everything away from the hot headlight once it's all fixed and hooked back up.
thanks for the help on the charging issue though guys
however, on my first ride back out, the headlight melted a connection and caused a short, which first only blew the main fuse. i changed it and everything seemed ok. then suddenly the horn wouldn't turn off and the harness started melting. Once i got home (was just down the street) i took the headlight out and noticed the wire that was melted to it, and noticed that the harness was mostly ruined, along with a good section of the wiring for the handlebar switches. The heat from the headlight must have been enough to melt the wire(s) that were touching and cause them to short. Insted of trying to mend the harness i decided to order up a new harness from mikes XS.
pretty bummed out but its my own fault for not taking more care in the wiring behind the headlight. I think i'll drill the bucket out on the back side and slip a couple zip ties in there to keep everything away from the hot headlight once it's all fixed and hooked back up.
thanks for the help on the charging issue though guys
What headlight bulb do you have in there? The stock sealed beam won't get that hot or draw that much current.
I have a Candlepower replacement headlight and run a 55/60 watt H4 bulb. It draws more current than stock but don't get any warmer. Maybe a wire got pinched or rubbed through and shorted to ground.
On my 75 I rewired it myself. Eliminated much of the extra stuff I didn't need or want.
Just the stuff to charge the battery, run the bike and light the lights.
Here's a shot of the headlight bucket.
I have a Candlepower replacement headlight and run a 55/60 watt H4 bulb. It draws more current than stock but don't get any warmer. Maybe a wire got pinched or rubbed through and shorted to ground.
On my 75 I rewired it myself. Eliminated much of the extra stuff I didn't need or want.
Just the stuff to charge the battery, run the bike and light the lights.
Here's a shot of the headlight bucket.
Attachments
my headlight bucket has all of the original wiring in it. Personally i blame myself for the problem because i shoved too much of the handlebar wiring into the bucket when i installed the clubman bars. I completely re-wired the right side handlebar switch, and installed another key switch with good wiring. The instrument cluster lighting was all fine, and the bulbs were not burned out. I cleaned up everything and got it in order. it looked like a rats nest behind there before. I have everything that i can hook up soldered and shrink wrapped. anything with a 3 or 4 wire connection is retaining the stock connectors but i will cover them before i install the headlight. I believe the headlight is stock but who knows what my dad put in there. The power wire had just enough slack to make its way against the headlight and it didnt seem to take much heat to burn through that old wire's insulation. The harness from mike's should be here tomorrow afternoon and i will be on my way to getting it back together. The wiring will be zip tied to the back of the bucket to keep it away from the headlight. So far it's looking much much cleaner, and i feel much better having new wiring in the bike. Also i have added a newer style fuse holder for the main fuse. All of the wiring for the accessories looks great. the main harness right under the tank melted the most. Fingers crossed that nothing else electrical got damaged from the mishap, since i had it charging and working perfectly before hand.
got the harness today. Going to print off the harness diagrams and head out to the garage. once it's done i should be able to get pictures up of the completed work and some of the bike. hopefully i didnt fry anything other than the harness. i'll sleep well knowing that it's all new anyways
Very good. Now how does it ride?
Leo
Leo
it rides pretty well! I had a few small hiccups that were easy to fix. The headlight screws kept coming out. the trim ring is stripped and i got sick of it and finally just riveted it in place. works well but i'll have to drill them any time i need to do something behind the headlight. The timing is slightly off. it pops a little when its cold but no big deal. just ride with the choke on for about 5 mins and it seems ok. The only other issue is it has a pretty noticable "death wobble" if you take your hands off the bars. I am going to pull the front wheel and have it balanced to see if it has something to do with that. The rear tire seemed disconnected from the bike. I re-greased the swingarm and tightened the bolts, and checked the air pressure in the rear tire. rear tire pressure was really low, i assume that "loose" feeling in sharp corners was because of the low tire.
Other than that, it starts first kick and is pretty smooth. Gotta wear gloves though, these things sure vibrate!!!!
Other than that, it starts first kick and is pretty smooth. Gotta wear gloves though, these things sure vibrate!!!!
^It sounds like you're describing worn out swing arm bushings. People usually replace the original plastic ones with the bronze bushings that are available.
The stripped headlight trim ring screws; when I got mine they were stripped and I just tapped them for a slightly larger screw. The new screw head fits in the depression for it the bucket and it looks normal. Actually, I didn't have any taps and dies at that time. I forced a self-tapping sheet metal screw of a good size through the holes, and used a screw of the same size to hold it to the bucket.
The stripped headlight trim ring screws; when I got mine they were stripped and I just tapped them for a slightly larger screw. The new screw head fits in the depression for it the bucket and it looks normal. Actually, I didn't have any taps and dies at that time. I forced a self-tapping sheet metal screw of a good size through the holes, and used a screw of the same size to hold it to the bucket.
Clock, how old are your tires? Old tires can feel that way. As tires age the plies in the tire can start to seperate. The tread can loosen and come off in chunks or all at once.
Before this happens you will notice ride and handleing problems.
The 81 I have had old tires on it. They have very little wear. Some of the mold tits are still on the tread. No cracking. They were made in 1995. As you said , no hands and the death wobble. I swapped tires around from the 75 and the parts bike and the wobble almost disappeared.
I now have a new set of tires and it rides and handles great.
The tire manufacturers don't reccomend running tires over 6 years old. Reasons as described above. If you remember a few years ago there was a big thing about SUV's flipping over and people dieing. They found that the tires on these SUV's were very old. Even if they were just put on as new. The tv reporters did a search of tires at tire stores and found tires up to 14 years old still on the rack and being sold as new.
The old tires were failing and causing the rollovers.
To tell the manufacture date of a tire you look at the DOT number on the tire. The DOT number has an oval with 3 or 4 digits in it. These digits tell the week and year of manufacture. The first two represent the week the third and fourth tell the year. If the oval has 3 digits the tire was made before 2000, 200 and adfter have 4 digits.
The tires on the 81 were dated 275 on one, 405 on the other. This means the tires were made the 27th and 40th week of 1995. The tires I put on read 1310 and 1610, as in 13th and 16th week of 2010.
AS xjwmx said check the swing arm for play. To check the play put the bike up on the center stand, pull the shocks, and rear wheel, now wiggle the swing arm back and forth sideways. If it moves, the bushings might be worn. check the torque on the swing arm pivot bolt. If less than about 50 ft/lbs it won't clamp the pivot tube between the frame sides and allow excessive play.
If with proper torque on the bolt and you still feel movement over .004, thats the spec in the book. If you can feel much play replace the bushings.
On the 81 the threaded part of the pivot bolt was broken off. A PO had drilled and tapped the end of the bolt and put a 5/16 bolt in there to hold it. It didn't work very well.
I pulled it all apart to replace the bushings. I found that the pivot tube fit very snug in the bushings. Even well greased I couldn't slide it in by hand, I had to tap it in with a mallet.
I used the pivot bolt from my parts bike and put the swing arm back in the frame. I then torqued the pivot bolt to about 45 ft/lbs. If I lifted the swing arm up to level , it would drop back down when I let go. I increased the torque to 50 ft/lbs. Lifting the releasing the swing arm it would drop slower. At about 55 it would hold position. I torqued to 65 and it would stay up and took a few lbs of push with my hand to get it to move. So I put it all back together with the stock bushings. Feels great in the corners.
So if you suspect the bushings are worn check the pivot bolt torgue. It might just be loose.
Leo
Before this happens you will notice ride and handleing problems.
The 81 I have had old tires on it. They have very little wear. Some of the mold tits are still on the tread. No cracking. They were made in 1995. As you said , no hands and the death wobble. I swapped tires around from the 75 and the parts bike and the wobble almost disappeared.
I now have a new set of tires and it rides and handles great.
The tire manufacturers don't reccomend running tires over 6 years old. Reasons as described above. If you remember a few years ago there was a big thing about SUV's flipping over and people dieing. They found that the tires on these SUV's were very old. Even if they were just put on as new. The tv reporters did a search of tires at tire stores and found tires up to 14 years old still on the rack and being sold as new.
The old tires were failing and causing the rollovers.
To tell the manufacture date of a tire you look at the DOT number on the tire. The DOT number has an oval with 3 or 4 digits in it. These digits tell the week and year of manufacture. The first two represent the week the third and fourth tell the year. If the oval has 3 digits the tire was made before 2000, 200 and adfter have 4 digits.
The tires on the 81 were dated 275 on one, 405 on the other. This means the tires were made the 27th and 40th week of 1995. The tires I put on read 1310 and 1610, as in 13th and 16th week of 2010.
AS xjwmx said check the swing arm for play. To check the play put the bike up on the center stand, pull the shocks, and rear wheel, now wiggle the swing arm back and forth sideways. If it moves, the bushings might be worn. check the torque on the swing arm pivot bolt. If less than about 50 ft/lbs it won't clamp the pivot tube between the frame sides and allow excessive play.
If with proper torque on the bolt and you still feel movement over .004, thats the spec in the book. If you can feel much play replace the bushings.
On the 81 the threaded part of the pivot bolt was broken off. A PO had drilled and tapped the end of the bolt and put a 5/16 bolt in there to hold it. It didn't work very well.
I pulled it all apart to replace the bushings. I found that the pivot tube fit very snug in the bushings. Even well greased I couldn't slide it in by hand, I had to tap it in with a mallet.
I used the pivot bolt from my parts bike and put the swing arm back in the frame. I then torqued the pivot bolt to about 45 ft/lbs. If I lifted the swing arm up to level , it would drop back down when I let go. I increased the torque to 50 ft/lbs. Lifting the releasing the swing arm it would drop slower. At about 55 it would hold position. I torqued to 65 and it would stay up and took a few lbs of push with my hand to get it to move. So I put it all back together with the stock bushings. Feels great in the corners.
So if you suspect the bushings are worn check the pivot bolt torgue. It might just be loose.
Leo
Leo.... my bushings were definately loose. i didn't check the torque i just tightened them up. I'll pull the rear wheel and set it up properly. The rear wheel feeling went away with more air in the rear tire. i had new tubes put in the tires and they look like new, but dad confirms that they were new in 1990 and had a few hundred miles on them when it was stored. it was stored off the ground and all that, and the tires look great. However i DO understand what you are saying about old tires and i definately want to get some new ones on it asap. I am going to look into tires, i really would like something with the "throwback" look like the ones that are on it.
here are a few pics of it that i took on my cell phone.
dad: first ride on her' since 1990
and, the fried harness
here are a few pics of it that i took on my cell phone.
dad: first ride on her' since 1990
and, the fried harness
new harness from mike's. and yes, my kitchen does match the 70's motorcycle, LOL
I know the pictures are at bad angles and such. also i know that every piece of aluminum on the bike still needs to be polished. i haven't touched any of that. so far all i've done is washed and waxed the painted bits, and chrome polished the chrome. haven't had time to finish up the wheels or engine yet
I know the pictures are at bad angles and such. also i know that every piece of aluminum on the bike still needs to be polished. i haven't touched any of that. so far all i've done is washed and waxed the painted bits, and chrome polished the chrome. haven't had time to finish up the wheels or engine yet
Depending on the tires that are on there they might still make them.
What tires are on it?
On tire pressure, set them to say 28 front, 30 rear cold. Ride it around a 50-55 mph for 15 minutes or so. This warms the tires up good. Pull over and check the hot pressure. If the cold pressure was right the hot pressure will be 3 lbs more. If more than 3 lbs the cold pressure is to low. If less than 3 lbs the cold pressure was to much.
Let the tires cool off, reset the cold pressure a bit and ride again. When you get the cold to hot increase to 3 lbs you have the right pressure for those tires on your bike with the load it carries.
If you load up with a lot of gear and/or a passenger for a trip. Then adjust the pressures the same way to match the load.
I have used this method since I was a kid. An older mechanic tought me that, and it works with any tire on any machine that rolls on the road.
Leo
What tires are on it?
On tire pressure, set them to say 28 front, 30 rear cold. Ride it around a 50-55 mph for 15 minutes or so. This warms the tires up good. Pull over and check the hot pressure. If the cold pressure was right the hot pressure will be 3 lbs more. If more than 3 lbs the cold pressure is to low. If less than 3 lbs the cold pressure was to much.
Let the tires cool off, reset the cold pressure a bit and ride again. When you get the cold to hot increase to 3 lbs you have the right pressure for those tires on your bike with the load it carries.
If you load up with a lot of gear and/or a passenger for a trip. Then adjust the pressures the same way to match the load.
I have used this method since I was a kid. An older mechanic tought me that, and it works with any tire on any machine that rolls on the road.
Leo
shotgunjoe
XS650 Hunter
Nice bike. 
