Where to start when engine starts acting up?

hotrdd

XS650 Junkie
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So like most guys here I have constantly been playing with the jetting on the bike but have never gotten it perfect though it was very reliable and ride-able. Thing fired up right away all the time. Then two weeks ago out of the blue the thing starts running like shit. To the un-trained mechanic "me"it almost sounds like it's missing every 4th or 5th detonation. This is while holding a constant RPM. It happens at 3K, 4K and 5K and I'm sure also at the lower ones but haven't confirmed.

First thought is that I had gotten some bad fuel so I drained the tank and topped it back up. We'll three tanks later and it's still not right. I then pulled the plugs and checked for spark and cleaned the plugs and while I was down there I re-synched the carbs at 3K.

Still no change so I thought maybe electrical, I charged the battery for a full day but the issue was still there right out of the gate.

What should I look at next?
 
I would test the voltage at the battery first to rule out charging/battery problems. If that checks out there could be an issue with the ignition.
 
hotrdd, I had similar problem and I know the feeling and the sounds. I thought at first it was the timing, but it was perfectly set - it turned out to be valves caked with carbon on one cylinder, and oil coming in the other.

Fingers crossed it will be electrical (loose connections are common), or a carb issue (jet needle not functioning properly) - if not, get the head cleaned up.

Anlaf
 
With old bikes like theses, when problems crop up, you pretty much have to check everything because, well, it could be anything. It could be carbs, it could be electrical, it could be ignition or coil related, or the spark plugs or condensers. Wires could have come loose or connections gone bad, or new electrical components could have failed. Honestly, it sounds electrical.
 
K I fired up the bike last night and was getting 13-14 volts at 3000+ RPM, but I'll go through it again. The engine is relatively new rebuild with only a few K on it but I'll try and see what the valves look like if thats possible.

Are there any recommended guides in the Tech section or posts for going through the electrical ignition bits?
 
I have a new Boyer ignition on the bike is there a quick way to test the output? Should I try bypassing the switches and go straight to the battery? Also if the battery is full charged should it at least run right for a bit if it's an electrical issue?
 
Sure, you could try that. Hook it directly to the battery, take a ride, then unhook it. Don't leave it hooked up like that because it's unswitched and the coil would be constantly getting power. It could overheat and burn out. But wait, you may need to hook the coil AND the Boyer directly to the battery. If it runs fine then that would indicate electrical problems. Just where though would still be the question. It could be anywhere in the wiring between the battery and those two components. That's the problem with electrical stuff. Many times, like your situation, the problem is intermittent. That makes it very hard to track down.
 
if you suspect a voltage loss on the circuit, you can perform whats known as a voltage drop test. first, test the voltage at your coil/ignition. if its lower than your battery voltage (if they differ by more than .5v) you can slowly eliminate parts of the circuit until the excessive resistance is found. I will say before I explain this, that intermittent electrical problems are the devil hahaha. so if the problem is active its much easier to find. so with a voltmeter, test from positive on the coil to positive on the battery. if you get a reading of .5v or more, leave one lead on the battery and move the other lead down the circuit until the reading goes away, this will help you find the area of the circuit in which the unwanted load exists. do the same for the ground side.

As far as intermittent problems, these are usually intermittent opens/high resistance, or intermittent shorts to ground/voltage (two wires rubbed and touching eachother or frame).
To find these we can do a continuity test, using an ohm meter. now using an ohm meter requires POWERING DOWN the circuit. failing to do so will blow your meter fuses, or possibly fry it. Personally, I like to make my apprentices buy me donuts every time they blow a meter fuse, that way they learn ;)

so on the UNPOWERED circuit, place on lead at the coil on the positive side, and one at the positive lead where it would hook up to the battery. essentially with the circuit closed, you want as close to zero ohms as possible. if you have O.L. (out of limits) your circuit is open. if you're getting a good reading (.2ohms for example) manipulate the wiring harness and watch for changes in your reading, especially connectors. for example, if you wiggle a connector and your resistance jumps up to 10 ohms, you have a poor connection there. this can be done on any circuit as long as its POWERED DOWN (cant stress that enough). you can also do continuity tests between two circuits if something is staying on when it shouldn't, to see if its finding power/ground from another circuit.

Shorts to ground are usually indicated by blown fuses. This tells you that the power feed has found a ground before the load, therefore making the fuse a very brief load (they dont like that haha). The same type of test can be done with alittle variation. install one lead to your power feed circuit, and the other to battery/chassis ground. you should read O.L. (out of limits). if you have a resistance reading, find your short by moving one lead up the circuit until you find O.L. if you dont, but suspect something intermittently grounding, manipulate the wiring harness and look for a resistance reading of any kind to pop up on the meter. if so, you have a wire touching frame somewhere.

If you are unclear on any of that, please let me know and I will try to explain it better.
 
I forgot to mention something, a problem that doesn't happen often but can cause issues that leave you baffled..."ghosts" as I like to call em ;)
If you find your battery is constantly low but your charging system is fully operational, you may have a drain... these can be found using a parasitic drain test...shut the bike down, engine off, key out. unhook battery (power or ground, doesn't really matter but preferably power)and install ammeter in SERIES to the battery. check for any reading over .02 amps (20 miliamps). if you do have over this reading, pull/reinstall fuses one by one until the amp reading disappears. when it does, the fuse you just pulled runs the circuit thats draining your battery when the bike is off. diagnose and repair as necc. sometimes switches get worn and they don't fully open, creating a load on the switch...say its a headlamp switch...the lamp wont be on, but the switch may be dropping a bit of voltage, enough to drain a battery when off but you'd never know it. I've seen it before... runs shitty for a bit because the charging system is having to recover a low charged battery....just trying to share some weird stuff Ive found not just on bikes but cars, trucks, equipment etc etc...something to be aware of.
 
Good write-up freemoRR. Being able to explain in proper detail, like the senior gurus here, is invaluable.

Had a wierd one, right blinker dead, but had good ground, and probing to the center contact in the socket showed 12v. After much hair-pulling to the sounds of an undiscovered language, found it was an invisible hi-resistance bimetallic corrosion issue in the little solder tit in the socket. The hi-resistance allowed the hi-impedance input to the multimeter to show 12v, but wouldn't pass any current. Refreshing the solder tit fixed it.

With the age of these bikes, and the age of their bimetellic connections, I forsee interesting electrical issues...
 
FreemoRR, when you say attach an ammeter in series with the battery, will my multimeter do that? alternatively I have an ammeter fixed (unconnected) in my headlight, will that do?

Anlaf
 
You say it, "...cropped up out of the blue." This is most likely dirt plugging the idle jet. This happens again and again. I found spraying carb cleaner through the mixture screw hole flushes the dirt back to the float bowl and the engine runs fine.

You mention a Boyer. One of the Boyer ignitions has a Gill .6 Ohm coil. This coil is a known problem.

Tom
 
FreemoRR, when you say attach an ammeter in series with the battery, will my multimeter do that? alternatively I have an ammeter fixed (unconnected) in my headlight, will that do?

Anlaf

Yes, multimeters (VOM) have milliamp/amp selections. Some even have microamp settings. The meter must be inserted in series, which means the meter becomes the only path for the current flow.
 
anlaf, retiredgentleman is correct. I personally prefer to use auto-ranging meters. I have both a FLUKE and a MAC TOOLS meter...fluke is far superior but pricey.

TwoMany: There are some problems that will show you 12 V but won't pass current, as you've found. For these I always verify the current flow with an incandescent test light (unless its a computer controlled ECU circuit, in which case LED is best, but thats not an issue on these old bikes). back-probing the connector would light up the light, but front probing it would not. ding ding ding, we have a winner.

The only way I've learned to do this is by being burnt in the past! so I feel your pain.
 
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TwoMany, thanks - I will extend my range of use for the multimeter and get testing. I have learnt something else while I wait for my parts to arrive for the rebuild.

Anlaf
 
always happy to help! my experience comes mainly from years in the automotive/heavy duty trades (13 and counting, but I'm only 30), bikes are just another way for me to learn and expand my skillset, but hey, its all nuts and bolts! The general principles and theories of electrical/moving components are the same.
 
FreemoRR, you might be able to help alxire on his thread 'Yeah, Yeah, another wiring issue..' he has measured 4 ohms on his coils (within range) but gets nothing from the wire or plug terminals. I am out of my depth with that, so I cannot help - I am interested to know what the answer is.

Anlaf
 
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