How-To: Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap (Also known as the Banshee Swap)

Yes, the Pamco will run just fine with a PROPER working PMA. You can't just slap it on and go. You need to hook your Pamco to a separate battery. Hook the rest of the bike to the PMA, Start and run the bike to test the PMA for proper function.
If your PMA regulator isn't functioning right it can send voltage spikes of up to 20+ volts to the system. This can burn up an electronic ignition.
Leo
 
Hey
I am new in this forum and i am blown away from all the info there is on this forum :)
But i havent been abel to finde what i am looking for.

I have a 79 xs 650, which i have done a PMA swap on ( the one from tc bros).
Now i want to make a simplyfide wirering harnes. But i cant figur out how to wire the Stock coils up to the new harnes.

Any one that Can tell me how to do so?
There is a Black and to red/white wires that goes to the Stock wirering harmes. I Think the Black is Ground and the one red/white is for the Kill switch and the other red/Withe is going to the old regulator plug.

Best reguards
 
Is this still a dependable option to attempt? It appears to be a whole lot cheaper then buying the PMA's designed specifically for the xs650. Looks like I can pick up everything for about 120 bucks. Except for the mount.
 
Is this still a dependable option to attempt? It appears to be a whole lot cheaper then buying the PMA's designed specifically for the xs650. Looks like I can pick up everything for about 120 bucks. Except for the mount.

If you use genuine Nippon Denso parts then, yes, it is a dependable option. I've put 50,000 trouble-free miles on mine and it's still going strong.
 
This may be a dumb question but here goes:

I've got almost all the parts ready to do this swap. Just curious about the woodruff key. According to Hughes website walkthrough "All the woodruff key does is locate the OEM rotor on the crank for timing mark reference." so do I not need to make a new one? I only ask because I don't have shop access right now and have to figure out a way to make one.
 
If the taper on the rotor matches the taper on the crank then the key does nothing after the rotor is installed. However, the tapers on aftermarket rotors likely aren't precision ground so they will not match the crank. In which case, a key must be used to prevent the rotor from spinning on the crank.

You can check the fit of the tapers by "bluing" the crank. Color the crank taper with a Sharpie, then stick the rotor on the crank without a key and spin it back and forth. Push in on the rotor hard enough that you get good contact but not so hard that you lock it onto the crank. Remove the rotor and look at where the Sharpie marks are rubbed off the crank taper. If nearly all of the taper was rubbed clean then there is good contact and the rotor will lock on when the nut is torqued and not require a key.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/something-odd-i-noticed-timing.38321/
 
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NOTE TO READER: I purchased the Kawasaki Drifter/Vulcan stator from the list above and it was too thick, causing the copper coil wires to rub and wear on the interior of the rotor/flywheel as it rotated. It was toast causing my charging system to only be putting out 5 volts +/-, running horribly. Purchased the Suzuki VZ800 97-04 Marauder stator because it looked very similar to the one Hugh's Handbuilt uses, with a tighter lower profile coil wrap. I gained the clearance I needed and after replacing the battery (1.3Ah 12V) which was now toast as well from the ground out, it fired up and ran like a top. Just some advice from someone who found out the hard way by buying the cheapest stator on the list of recommended.
 
NOTE TO READER: I purchased the Kawasaki Drifter/Vulcan stator from the list above and it was too thick, causing the copper coil wires to rub and wear on the interior of the rotor/flywheel as it rotated. It was toast causing my charging system to only be putting out 5 volts +/-, running horribly. Purchased the Suzuki VZ800 97-04 Marauder stator because it looked very similar to the one Hugh's Handbuilt uses, with a tighter lower profile coil wrap. I gained the clearance I needed and after replacing the battery (1.3Ah 12V) which was now toast as well from the ground out, it fired up and ran like a top. Just some advice from someone who found out the hard way by buying the cheapest stator on the list of recommended.
You can notch down the stator plat like i did and it will fit just fine
 
NOTE TO READER: I purchased the Kawasaki Drifter/Vulcan stator from the list above and it was too thick, causing the copper coil wires to rub and wear on the interior of the rotor/flywheel as it rotated. It was toast causing my charging system to only be putting out 5 volts +/-, running horribly. Purchased the Suzuki VZ800 97-04 Marauder stator because it looked very similar to the one Hugh's Handbuilt uses, with a tighter lower profile coil wrap. I gained the clearance I needed and after replacing the battery (1.3Ah 12V) which was now toast as well from the ground out, it fired up and ran like a top. Just some advice from someone who found out the hard way by buying the cheapest stator on the list of recommended.

What alternator bracket are you using?

The bracket I made was the same height as the Banshee bracket and would accommodate all the stators on the list.

If you are using a Banshee bracket on an adapter plate then it will be too tall for most of the stators on the list. You can machine the back side of the Banshee bracket, equal to the adapter thickness, to fit the larger stators.

I'm not sure how tall the XS Charge bracket is. When Rick Page was designing it, I gave him the dimensions of my bracket but he may have done something different.
 
I should'a been more clear. I went with a Hugh's stator backing plate and stator mount. It seemed easy and I like his quality with no further grinding of a banshee mounting bracket. I learned the hard way.
 
Wiring is now the the only major thing left. Hook up the 3 wires coming from the Stator to the 3 yellow wires on the regulator. It doesn't matter which wire go where, just make sure all the yellow wires are used. Red goes to the battery/condenser and green is a ground. You are all done :cheersmate:
View attachment 268776

Obviously you'll need to mount the regulator somewhere, but this is all for the how-to.

Had lots of folks who wanted a wiring diagram. This is ONLY for the charging system, the rest of the wiring on your ride is up to you.
View attachment 268777

Reinstall your cover, route wires away from the chain (duh) and reinstall your controls and all that mess you took off to get started.


NOTES: If you are using a TCI ignition, you'll need to change over to points or Pamcopete's awesome setup before doing this modification. You'll get the timing working first, get it all timed properly and use the timing marks from your setup to reinstall the timing tab on the side cover.

Here is the list of sourced Stators that should work. I've never had to buy a new one for any reason, they work just fine used off of ebay/CL. I stole this list from another source, be sure to double check bolt patterns and that a Stator has 3 Yellow wires coming out of it (mine had 3 black, but it works just the same, you just need a 3 Phase Stator)

MAKE SURE TO GET THE CORRECT PART NUMBERS FROM A STATOR!!! THIS LIST IS NOT 100% ACCURATE. CORRECT STATOR MEASUREMENTS SHOULD BE 103mm X 42mm X 20mm
YAMAHA (ESR080)

Honda CBR600 F1 86-90
Honda VF500 84-85
Kawasaki VN800 Vulcan 00-05
Kawasaki VN800 Classic 01-06
Kawasaki VN800 Drifter 01-05
Kawasaki ZL600 86-87
Kawasaki ZX600, ZX-6 Ninja, ZZR600 85-04 [!!NOT ZX6-R, ZX6-RR 98+!!]
Suzuki VS800 92-07
Suzuki VX800 90-93
Suzuki VZ800 97-04
Suzuki LT250 91-96
Suzuki LT4WD 91-96
Suzuki LT-F4WD 91-98
Yamaha XV250 Route66 88-90
Yamaha XT600 90-95


TAGS: XS650 XS 650 Big Bore 750 Kit Charging System Permanent Magnet Alternator Banshee Hugh'sHandBuilt Hugh Owings Chopper Bobber Wiring Swap Stator Rotor PMA 3 Phase Regulator
I see what you’re doing here and it changed the game for me. Maybe someone has said something in a post but there’s 14 pages. I see what you are doing with the regulator but what about the rectifier?
 
I see what you’re doing here and it changed the game for me. Maybe someone has said something in a post but there’s 14 pages. I see what you are doing with the regulator but what about the rectifier?
It uses a "combined" regulator/rectifier. The 3 yellow wires go to the rectifier.
 
It uses a "combined" regulator/rectifier. The 3 yellow wires go to the rectifier.
I get that much. I misspoke. I was referring to the regulator. It’s obvious that if you’re replacing everything else you’ll want to replace the old and most likely dying regulator. It has three wires coming from it. Green, brown, and black. Typically both of these pieces are combined now so what regulator/rectifier would we be using? If we’re just using the rectifier then what are we doing with the regulator?
 
I get that much. I misspoke. I was referring to the regulator. It’s obvious that if you’re replacing everything else you’ll want to replace the old and most likely dying regulator. It has three wires coming from it. Green, brown, and black. Typically both of these pieces are combined now so what regulator/rectifier would we be using? If we’re just using the rectifier then what are we doing with the regulator?
On a stock XS650 charging system the voltage regulator controls the alternator rotor excitation through the green wire. It isn't going to work with a PMA AFAIK.
 
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