Standard vs Special vs Special II seats ?

[79xs]

I'm sayin', "That bike looks good!"

Next up: Fit some standard side covers. Ya got any more of dat blue paint?

Tom

Standard side covers are my next step. Honestly though, the special II side covers do not bother me with the standard seat. Yeah, the top cover edge does not perfectly follow the seat... but most old English bikes did not have perfectly parallel side covers and seat bottoms either... so it looks OK to me.

Then maybe an 18'' rear wheel. After that no one will ever know it started life as a Special II!

Its actually a Harley Davidson color... but I don't know any more about it than that. A friend of my Dad's is a painter, and he bought this color to fix a Harley gas tank for one of his customers. He had some left over paint when he finished the job, so he gave it to me. I still have it, but there is so much blue paint on the label I can't read it any more. There is definitely enough left to do a set of side covers though.

 

[Wharfcreek]

79, if you still watch this thread of yours, I have a question for you. I'm about to do what you did; attempt to put a 'standard' seat on my '80 'G' type Special. Like your bike, my hinges DO line up with my seat. I also have a '79 Standard, and a spare seat from that bike. I tried the retro-fit yesterday and was delight to find that the seat 'looked' like it would fit. The hinges lined up, and I even put the pins in and attempted to close it over. However, this is where the rub comes in..... literally! In attempting to lay the seat flat on the frame, I noted that the seat came in contact with what appears to be the old 'channel guide' that was used to support the frame side of the seat prop rod used on the 'original' seat. My bike came with an atrocious version of a King/Queen/Sissy bar/Back Rest set-up....with back rest built into the seat that was about 16" to 18" tall!! HIDEOUS!! Luckily I had a replacement seat. But, I can't figure out from your threat here if the reason you put those spacers in was to clear that welded in bracket, or for some other reason? Like Skull said to me when I posted on this subject earlier this evening, a picture is worth 1000 words. I told him I used 1000 words because I didn't have a picture. But, I don't see a picture of the 'frame' side of your bike so as to see if you have this same bracket under the seat or not. Maybe you can tell me? It's welded into the frame....and I was considering just taking a cutting wheel and hacking it out of there. It's no longer needed as none of my seats have the brackets for the other end of the seat support rod. So, having the 'frame' side of it is really just a waste. I was just wondering if, with that bracket cut out of there, would the 'stock' seat then fit perhaps WITHOUT those spacers? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Tom D.

 

[79xs]

Yes, my 1979 Special II has the same welded bracket for the seat 'prop up stick'. That's exactly why I used the spacers between the standard seat and hinges, so that it would close over top of the bracket, since I didn't want to cut the bracket off of the frame. If you get longer bolts and spacers for the hinges and latch, you'll be able to close and latch the standard seat without it hitting that bracket.

I don't know if the standard seat will fit without the spacers with the bracket cut off, since I didn't try that.

 

[Wharfcreek]

79, thanks for the response. Looks like we're going to find out, as I plan to chop that bracket off and give it a try. Will be a few days before I can get to it as the bike is actually still on the trailer and under a cover....... But, hopefully this weekend will provide me the time to get it done.

So how did yours turn out? I think you left your thread with still needing to get a few more things....... From where I sit it looks like the seat change is one of about 4 or 5 things that need to be done to 'retro' the bike. Aside from the seat, it looks like it will need the aluminum rim wheels, a different exhaust set up, the side covers, a handle bar and cable change..... and then to be really 'picky' one would also want to swap the carbs from the BS34s to BS38s. I actually have all that stuff here with the exception of a 'stock' exhaust system. However, I do have a set of the stainless head pipes and a set of reverse cone mufflers.....and I might be able to fashion a system that, while not 'stock', might be a bit more suitable than the original 'Special' system ....... which I'm not fond of from a visual perspective although I do give Yamaha credit for providing it as a well designed and VERY functional system. The cross-over pipe in the Special's system is actually quite beneficial to engine performance if everything is tuned properly.

Anyway..... just curious about how you ended up with yours......and again, I really appreciate the response. Oh, I was also going to ask you that since you'd now had some time to 'ride' your bike after doing the seat modification with the spacers, did you find that you ended up with any 'sag' in the seat pan due to the rise in position?

Thanks again, Tom D.

 

[79xs]

My bike still looks like it did in the most recent photo I posted in this thread. I stopped after swapping to round mirrors and the old style tank badges. My bike already had the wire spoke wheels though. I gout used to the way the side covers look, and they don't bother me any more.

I've put about 5,000 miles on the bike since I last posted in this thread, and the Mike's XS standard style seat still looks brand new. No sagging at all.

 

[Wharfcreek]

Great!! Good to know! I was a bit concerned that by being elevated up the center, the seat platform might not be supported enough to keep from sagging. I think Yamaha put some 'bumper supports' in the original seat pan and those bumpers supported the middle of the seat against a frame cross-member. If you've had no problems, that's great. But, (and I probably have no business suggesting this).... you might consider checking to see if there are some bumper supports on your seat pan that are NOT in contact with the frame. If so, them perhaps a small block of wood cut and shaped to act as a filler and support those bumpers might be beneficial over the long run. Again, please forgive me if this suggestion seems out of line!! And, by the way, your bike looks spectacular!! I've not seen those older XS-1/2 badges on a 'Special' tank before, but they look GREAT!!! You've done a great job overall......and I only hope mine looks as good when I'm done. I actually think there might be a benefit to the 16" rear wheel and larger tire......at least as far as 'road' riding is concerned. Do you have an aluminum rim front wheel on your bike? Kind of looks that way from the last 2 pics. Thanks again! Tom

 

[Wharfcreek]

Skull (or 79), do you happen to know if one were to substitute a 'standard' latch assembly on to the '80 frame, would that resolve the issue of the latch portion of the seat making proper latching contact with the latch itself, or is it necessary to obtain an '80 seat latch 'nib' (or what ever you'd call the part that mounts to the seat) and mount that on to the '79 seat to make it latch properly?

 

[650Skull]

Don't know..............You mentioned the Standard seat wont close because the frame brace is in the way.................How is a latch change going to solve that problem.............Just asking............Doesn't the seat want to sit level?

This is a reversal, a hinged special seat on a standard frame...................I do know the Early 78/79/80G seats sit on a Standard without any alterations to the frame or such..............but........(always a but).....the seat latch, (parts drawing calls this a Seat Bracket and the frame part a Seat Lock Assembly so i will use that terminology from now on), the seat bracket slots deeper into the seat lock ass'y. The seat bracket sits deeper in the lock ass'y so there is about 1" vertical play because of the extra length going into the lock ass'y.

Hope that is clearer than mud. i would think the Yamaha aftermarket seat you had on the Special should be the same pan as the original seats.

Your on a position to answer some of these questions your self having both the Standard and Special hinged seats, seat brackets and Seat lock ass'y to mix and match

 

[Wharfcreek]

I agree....... as soon as I get a bit of a break in both the weather and my other responsibilities I'll unload this bike off the trailer and go to work on some of this. I'm thinking that the 'seat lock assembly' is probably as interchangeable as the seat is. In other words, while the seat fits the hinges, the 'pan' makes in incompatible without some further attention.....at least going in the direction of 'from' the standard and 'to' the Special. Likewise, I'm thinking that the seat lock assembly might fit the screw pattern....but without that proper 'seat bracket' to match up....it too won't work right. May be that as long as you have 'matching' bracket and lock assemblies you're good to go. But, I'm guessing that one won't work without the other. Guess I'll find out once I get the thing down and apart! Again, thanks for the help!! Tom D.

 

[79xs]

You have to put spacers under the hinge and under the latch, to keep the seat level.

I got some peel and stick rubber bumpers from the hardware store and stuck them to my frame, so the stock rubber seat bumpers rest on them, to support the set. Its all flat and level, just a little taller than stock.

I don't know about latch compatibility,sorry. I used the stock Special II latch, with spacers, on the Standard seat and it fit fine.

 

[5twins]

I don't know anything about the seat and latch stuff but I can comment on the seat/helmet lock. It was used on several different models from '73 up through '80. They were all the same other than the key that fit. I have personally scrounged several from XS500s and 750s. In fact, the one I'm using on my 650 came off an XS500. I re-keyed the lock so it works with my 650 key and it's all good.

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-584-24705-00-00.html

 

[Wharfcreek]

LOL......5, I go the other way with that 're-key' thing! I tend to simply take the lock cylinder out, dump the tumblers, and re-assemble the thing. When done, it 'looks' like it's locked, but anything will actually turn it. I have had so many of these old bikes that NEVER had keys........and my local costs were prohibitive as far as making keys went. So, I gave up. While I do have some bikes that still have ignition keys, even my primary ride only needs a small blade of sorts to switch it from off to run. I found a little metal screw driver that may have started life as a spark-plug gapper. It was a round, flat thing....and I ground off all but one of the tabs. While in my local guitar shop, the guy was selling little guitar pic leather pouches that fit on to a key chain and snapped shut. The thing I made as a 'key' fit into this little case perfectly as it was shaped almost like a guitar pic. It now makes a perfect 'master key' for all my needs! BTW, nice KONI shocks on that bike!!! Do you think Boats.net sells many of those latch assemblies at $171 each???? Later, Tom D.

 

[5twins]

You need to keep an eye on the lock mounting screws. They're very short and tend to vibrate loose. My buddy has lost 3 lock assemblies so far. The one on my bike was missing when I got it (hence the XS500 replacement).

As long as you have a key available that will slide into the lock, you can make it work by switching the sliding plates around or replacing them with appropriate others. I scrounge all the old locks I can find just to get a good supply of different sized sliding plates.