verizon and gov!

[I am Carbon]

The National Security Agency is monitoring the phone records and location data for all Verizon Wireless customers placing calls to or from the United States, according to a new report published in The Guardian. Verizon is turning over daily reports on millions of customers "indiscriminately and in bulk" because of a secret court order granted by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA). Since April 25, the government has collected the data for unknown reasons and will continue monitoring users until July 19.

FISA rules do not require the government to disclose the reason for tracking millions of customers who have not been suspected or accused of criminal activities, and answers are unlikely to arrive given that the order is classified until 2038. Verizon, and the NSA, Department of Justice, and White House all refused to comment on the matter.

The Guardian obtained a court order that compels Verizon to hand over the information to the government. The order requires that Verizon supply records for local calls, calls made from the U.S. to foreign phone numbers, or calls made abroad to the U.S. Records can include phone numbers, length of each call, calling card numbers, trunk identifiers, International Mobile Subscriber Identity numbers, details about how the calls were routed, and the nearest cell tower when the calls were placed.

source: The Guardian
Read more at http://www.mobileburn.com/21689/new...all-records-and-location-#DiUePgKbrQspGo8c.99

 

[I am Carbon]

7 Things to Know About the Government's Secret Database of Telephone Data

A top secret federal court order reveals that the FBI and the National Security Agency are collecting the cell phone data of millions of Americans. The document, obtained by The Guardian, compels Verizon to send the NSA information about all telephone calls made on the telecom's network within the United States. Here are seven quick things to know about the secret directive and its implications:

1. What Verizon Shares with the NSA: The court order requires Verizon to provide both the ingoing and outgoing telephone numbers of a given call, unique identifiers of individual phones, the time of the call and its duration. Subscribers' names, addresses and contact information are not revealed. Calls and texts are also not monitored under the order.

2. Collecting Massive Amounts of Cell Phone Data is Legal, For Now: According to the court, information like phone numbers and call duration is considered "metadata"and can therefore be acquired by government agencies without individual warrants. The court order was signed by Roger Vinson, a federal judge in the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and a U.S. District Court judge in northern Florida.

(MORE: New Patriot Act Controversy: Is Washington Collecting Your Cell-Phone Data?)

3. But Telling Americans That Their Data is Being Collected Isn't Legal: The order specifically forbids Verizon from informing customers (or anyone else) that their data is being collected, stating "no person shall disclose to any other person that the FBI or the NSA has sought or obtained tangible things under this Order."

4. The Government Has Done This Before: In 2006 USA Today reported that the NSA had a similarly expansive database of cellular data, not only from Verizon but also from AT&T and BellSouth. That program was launched as part of the push for tighter security and surveillance in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Despite public uproar and several lawsuits against cell phone carriers following the revelation, the NSA never officially announced that the database was shut down. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a lobbying group that promotes digital privacy, still has pending litigation seeking to curtail the NSA's practices.

5. The Current Data Collection Could Involve Other Carriers: Though the court order obtained by The Guardian only applies to Verizon, the Bush-era NSA database involved multiple carriers. Companies like Verizon have felt increasing pressure to provide customer data to government agencies in recent years. Cell phone carriers responded to 1.3 million requests for subscriber information from law enforcement agencies in 2011, according to The New York Times.

6. The Verizon Call You Make Today Could End Up in This Database: The court order went into effect on April 25 and runs until July 19.

7. The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald Had the Scoop: Greenwald, an American columnist for the British newspaper, has a long history of challenging the surveillance state. Originally a supporter of George Bush and the Iraq War, he wrote a scathing indictment of government overreach in his 2006 book How Would a Patriot Act? During the Obama years he's frequently criticized the President for infringing on civil liberties.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/05...cret-database-of-cellular-data/#ixzz2VRXV6Z8z

 

[mrkil]

Some land of the free.......

 

[1lowdiesel]

Yea, like Canada is soooo much better.

IMO who cares. I'm not doing anything illegal enough to be targeted. If they know a general area of where I am, GREAT, they still need to find me. Think of it like this; if you are ever kidnapped they at least will know where to start providing you used your phone minutes before you were clubbed and dragged into the windowless van.

If this offends you and makes you feel violated, you need to get off your high horse and stop taking this "freedom" thing so literally. You do realize the government knows where you are right now based on your computers i.p address and could probably hack in right now and shut it off if they wanted.

If you are worried about this, then chances are you're doing something you don't want anyone to find out about.

 

[xjwmx]

If you are worried about this, then chances are you're doing something you don't want anyone to find out about.

Where would you personally draw the line? In the shower?

 

[burns]

Yea, like Canada is soooo much better.

IMO who cares. I'm not doing anything illegal enough to be targeted. If they know a general area of where I am, GREAT, they still need to find me. Think of it like this; if you are ever kidnapped they at least will know where to start providing you used your phone minutes before you were clubbed and dragged into the windowless van.

If this offends you and makes you feel violated, you need to get off your high horse and stop taking this "freedom" thing so literally. You do realize the government knows where you are right now based on your computers i.p address and could probably hack in right now and shut it off if they wanted.

If you are worried about this, then chances are you're doing something you don't want anyone to find out about.

======================================================
I think you are expressing a very widely held opinion. After 60 years of Cold War propaganda and the complete management of media in more recent times Americans have abandonded many of the principles they once cherished.

Limitations on government that started with the Magna Carta and evolved for hundreds of years are now systematiclly being dismantled under the guise of "security" and many if not most Americans don't really seem to care.

Bush openly violated the law with his wiretapping policy and the Congress ratified his actions and changed the law to make them legal. Obama voted for that piece of legislation and continued, some say expanded, that policy.

Nixon, you may remember, used national security assets to further his political career. He got caught and it ended his Presidency. My guess is that now a sitting President would easily get away with what Nixon was impeached for and now those assets are vastly superior, and getting better every day. Do you trust our elected officials to always have our best interests first and foremost? If so history does not support your conclusion.

It really isn't a matter of the good guys having nothing to worry about.

When freedoms go they generally don't come back.

 

[burns]

7 Things to Know About the Government's Secret Database of Telephone Data

A top secret federal court order reveals that the FBI and the National Security Agency are collecting the cell phone data of millions of Americans. The document, obtained by The Guardian, compels Verizon to send the NSA information about all telephone calls made on the telecom's network within the United States. Here are seven quick things to know about the secret directive and its implications:

1. What Verizon Shares with the NSA: The court order requires Verizon to provide both the ingoing and outgoing telephone numbers of a given call, unique identifiers of individual phones, the time of the call and its duration. Subscribers' names, addresses and contact information are not revealed. Calls and texts are also not monitored under the order.

2. Collecting Massive Amounts of Cell Phone Data is Legal, For Now: According to the court, information like phone numbers and call duration is considered "metadata"and can therefore be acquired by government agencies without individual warrants. The court order was signed by Roger Vinson, a federal judge in the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and a U.S. District Court judge in northern Florida.

(MORE: New Patriot Act Controversy: Is Washington Collecting Your Cell-Phone Data?)

3. But Telling Americans That Their Data is Being Collected Isn't Legal: The order specifically forbids Verizon from informing customers (or anyone else) that their data is being collected, stating "no person shall disclose to any other person that the FBI or the NSA has sought or obtained tangible things under this Order."

4. The Government Has Done This Before: In 2006 USA Today reported that the NSA had a similarly expansive database of cellular data, not only from Verizon but also from AT&T and BellSouth. That program was launched as part of the push for tighter security and surveillance in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Despite public uproar and several lawsuits against cell phone carriers following the revelation, the NSA never officially announced that the database was shut down. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a lobbying group that promotes digital privacy, still has pending litigation seeking to curtail the NSA's practices.

5. The Current Data Collection Could Involve Other Carriers: Though the court order obtained by The Guardian only applies to Verizon, the Bush-era NSA database involved multiple carriers. Companies like Verizon have felt increasing pressure to provide customer data to government agencies in recent years. Cell phone carriers responded to 1.3 million requests for subscriber information from law enforcement agencies in 2011, according to The New York Times.

6. The Verizon Call You Make Today Could End Up in This Database: The court order went into effect on April 25 and runs until July 19.

7. The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald Had the Scoop: Greenwald, an American columnist for the British newspaper, has a long history of challenging the surveillance state. Originally a supporter of George Bush and the Iraq War, he wrote a scathing indictment of government overreach in his 2006 book How Would a Patriot Act? During the Obama years he's frequently criticized the President for infringing on civil liberties.


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/05...cret-database-of-cellular-data/#ixzz2VRXV6Z8z

==================================================

add this to the picture
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/13f1a4f192056dfd

 

[mrkil]

Lol diesel

canada doesn't claim to be land of the free.

Your willingness to let them do what ever they want without so much as a peep baffles me.
What if someone you talk to on the phone seems to be someone that they are targeting? What if they decide that you need to go to jail? The patriot act means that you have no defense or recourse.

Thats just they way I see it. You may have a totally different view

 

[burns]

Lol diesel

canada doesn't claim to be land of the free.

Your willingness to let them do what ever they want without so much as a peep baffles me.
What if someone you talk to on the phone seems to be someone that they are targeting? What if they decide that you need to go to jail? The patriot act means that you have no defense or recourse.

Thats just they way I see it. You may have a totally different view

It is actually worce than that. Under the "Extrodinary Rendition" program the military can abduct anyone, put them on a plane, send them to a prison in a foreign country and have them tortured. No criminal charges, no lawyer, no nothing, just on somebody's opinion.

BTW according to Obama's defense of murder by Drone all "due process" requirements to kill somebody is the President's order.

Most Americans simply do not understand how far down this road we have gone.

 

[I am Carbon]

Burns, mrkil, You are spot on with the ignorance of the facts. People are not interested for the most part.
The ease dropping is much much more that just Verizon I have learned the gov has put the move on all the carriers. It's been going on for "YEARS" The only way to not be easedropped on is to unplug the batteries on mobil phones computers with vista or newer, ipods, ipads.
The gov can and "DO" use our video cam and microphone on these at "any time" to ease drop.
take the battery out is the only way to stop the easy dropping that I know of!

 

[mrkil]

And this from so long ago *ahem 6 years......

 

[shotgunjoe]

Many electronics these days dont even have a removable battery anymore... so good luck with that carbon.

 

[I am Carbon]

hey Joe. I thinking that maybe put those things in some kind of metal box. I will give that a try.

 

[nj1639]

It wasn't too long ago that the elected were civil servants- now they're the officials and the authorities.....guess the change occured while the populous were busy studying up on the ever changing Pop Culture exam or watching Maury and Oprah......

and Carbon, no criticism here but it's 'eaves dropping' for clarification.

 

[I am Carbon]

nj1639 , thank You for informing me. I would rather know
"guess I was having a Archie Bunker moment"

 

[nj1639]

Yea, like Canada is soooo much better.

IMO who cares. I'm not doing anything illegal enough to be targeted. If they know a general area of where I am, GREAT, they still need to find me. Think of it like this; if you are ever kidnapped they at least will know where to start providing you used your phone minutes before you were clubbed and dragged into the windowless van.

If this offends you and makes you feel violated, you need to get off your high horse and stop taking this "freedom" thing so literally. You do realize the government knows where you are right now based on your computers i.p address and could probably hack in right now and shut it off if they wanted.

If you are worried about this, then chances are you're doing something you don't want anyone to find out about.

This may show the depth of the submissive mindset to authoritarian rule in the late great state of New Jersey.........

 

[1lowdiesel]

lol personally i hate NJ. I lived in Indiana for 2 yrs and it was better than the 26 i spent in NJ. Do i agree with the gov eaves dropping... NO. However there is little we can do. It's not like they put these types of things up for a vote and "we the people" have a chance to say yes or no to it. So what's done is done... now we just have to roll with it. IMO there are better things to worry about that affect my day to day life.

I'd rather put the effort into trying to ease gun laws in NJ and allow the state to accept other states carry permits.

 

[nj1639]

The one thing that we as Jerseyans have is a fatalistic sense of humor! Or in my case, had. After being in Hoosierland for 20 plus years I wonder how any of me old friends and family back there can stand it. There is a world past the Walt Whitman and the George Washington that thinks a bit differently.
Glad you took no offense as none was intended.....I also used the word 'may' in the comment for an out if you were. LoL! But Hey! I'm from New Jersey! I'm supposed to be a prick!

 

[shotgunjoe]

hey Joe. I thinking that maybe put those things in some kind of metal box. I will give that a try.

lol, call me paranoid, but I keep tape over my camera when not in use. I know enough about computers to know these things are not hard to access remotely, and unknowingly to the user.

Wasnt that long ago when cpu manufacturers were talki about putting in a 'backdoor' in, strictly for troubleshooting purposes of course. People were outraged, and they decided against it...right...

 

[1974jh5]

As noted earlier in the thread this is nothing new. The last real legislation dealing with it formed PRISM in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html

The funny part? When you sign that agreement with your cell phone provider you explicitly allow them to share data with 'third parties'. That's where a lot of your spam shit comes from. The agreement does not specify who the third parties are, so the NSA can legally mine that data because you have allowed it. Same thing with Microsoft Apple etc EULA (End User License Agreements), your ISP, credit card agreements, those grocery store discount cards, you name it.