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An LED Ignition Timing Light experiment

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by TwoManyXS1Bs, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. Signal

    Signal XS650 Junkie Top Contributor

    Good stuff TwoMany, well done thanks for sharing.
     
  2. glennpm

    glennpm Another Old Biker Nut!

    I love your science projects TwoMany!
     
  3. pckopp

    pckopp XS650 Addict

    Really nice 2M. Thank you.
     
  4. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Hey, Signal! Thanx. That's what it's all about.

    Haha, thanx, Glenn. How many of us grew up watching "Mr. Wizard"?

    You bet, pckopp.


    I did a search for "M4 nylon screw" and "M4 nylon insulated standoff", and found better options for the standoff post. Probably the easiest way to do an insulated standoff would be with a nylon 4mm screw with an 8mm thick nylon spacer...
     
  5. angus67

    angus67 Welder's penetrate deeper!!

    so when are you going to sell these cool units?:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  6. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Hey, Angus! Dunno, is there a market? You and ............. gggGary?

    I have a feeling that most of the tech-savvy folk have already joined the "set and forget" club.

    A special member here is already looking into this, so stay tuned.
    Myself, I'm just a tinkerer. No facilities, location and connections for such an adventure.

    Update: It has come to my attention that there's some omissions in the schematic, and lack of comprehensive parts list. So, will post updates for that later as well...
     
  7. angus67

    angus67 Welder's penetrate deeper!!

    are you kidding? lol. that is ingenuity at its purest form. Out on a run and running strange? hit the switch and check timmong....bad gas, retard timming,,,,,,,love to tinker?, throw a switch. Ide pay near $80 for that!!
     
    JAX71224 likes this.
  8. evil 650

    evil 650 XS650 Enthusiast

    WoW that's amazing TwoMany, im sure there be alot of interest keep us posted on electronic (pamco) ignitions too
     
  9. NONclow

    NONclow Confirmed Laquer Breather

    In-freakin'-genious! Way to tinker bro!

    :popcorn:Thanks 2M, another project!!:D
     
  10. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Haa, thanx, Angus. I like your thinkin'. You're stuck in the '70s too...
     
  11. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Thanx for the accolades, evil 650.

    The Pamco is Pete's department.

    This gadget is a slave unit to the points ignition, mostly trying to filter out and interpret noise. And, tap into a tiny bit of that energy to drive LEDs.

    Pete's Pamco Ignition already knows when spark occurs. It's the master, in full control.
    Maybe he'll consider a next-gen model with an LED drive option. The other challenge is the LED mounting, knowing that a variety of PMAs could be found below...
     
  12. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Thanx, NONclow!

    Isn't it interesting that the word "tinker" matches the sounds of stuff that rolls off the bench?

    Well, it's YOUR fault.
    Your "Tribute" thread of a year ago started this "Mystery Contraption" tradition.

    http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38632

    I was going nuts over that thing.

    Sausage stuffing taffy puller?
    Taffy pulling sausage stuffer?
    Taffy stuffing sausage puller???

    I'm just keeping this new tradition alive.

    And hoping to perk the interest of our next generation of motorcycle/electronics hobbyists...
     
  13. hell im 25 and id pay for that! thats awesome, I'm running a sparx w/ no battery and checking timing is a passive PITA. I'm stuck stealing the battery out of another bike to check it hahaha. i tinker all the time and that would be perfect... i have a Hughes pma but I'm interested. I'm sure i could rig something up similar. Subscribed
     
  14. glennpm

    glennpm Another Old Biker Nut!

  15. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Hey, schlake! So you have points, and a PMA. Okay, the challenge there would be the LED mounting, plus the wiring to that area (since you probably don't have that spare wire).

    One of the problems with the rotor mark and timing plate is that the rotor mark moves, requiring multiple LEDs to flash that width.

    If the timing marks were on the rotor instead, with a single reference mark on the housing (or whatever), just like you see with degree wheels, then this gadget could be done with a single LED.

    That's how I did my Chevy, degree marks on the harmonic balancer.
    Then things don't move around, much easier to see.

    Also, since you'd have to string wiring to it, might as well string two lines, one for power, the other one grounded by the device. This is the 'normal' way to run LEDs, the semiconductor grounds the LED.

    On my device, I wanted to take advantage of that *unnecessary* black wire. Ground is already there (stator housing). So, this gadget has to do what's call 'top drive', supplying power to the LEDs, a bit more complicated.

    A device to do it thataway, on your bike, would be a bit simpler. Kinda like on my Chevy, I was able to pack the whole circuit, plus single LED into a small tube, about 3/8" diameter and 1" long.

    So, where could you mount an LED on your PMA?
    And, would you be able to engrave (or sticky-tape) timing marks on the rotor?
    And, where would you have the reference mark?
     
  16. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Wow, Glenn! Thanx for that link! It has his complete bio. Much more in his life than I imagined.
    Yes, his shows had a significant impact on us.

    One of my favorite episodes: "The speed of smell".
     
  17. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Now that you mention it :thumbsup: , I thought I'd go out there, tinker with the timing a bit, and put it back to normal, so as not to upset our members.

    Oh, man! I should've done this 40 years ago! :banghead:

    Engine idling, a little nudging here-and-there while watching the timing light, and done! :yikes:
    Just a couple minutes!

    Great weather today, mid 70s. Cold front coming tonight, will remain cold for some time.
    So, did a bit of riding. Tuning, tweaking, noting changes in power/response/vibration.
    I'm gonna need '2' cups of coffee before riding now...:bike:
     
  18. I missed the points part! I have a pamco as well, my motor is rephrased. But I'd still be in to try it, I'm sure I could figure out how to put it on the rotor... My timing marks are in the engine case cover at the moment. Hugh had a little sticker I stuck on there. I'd be in trouble with the points, but out of curiosity... Couldn't I just run it off of the pamco wire? If not maybe hide it high in the spark wire, near the coil connection
     
  19. angus67

    angus67 Welder's penetrate deeper!!

    Gimme gimme. How about a simple tons wire Schu for that if your not making a kit?
    Pamco needs timing too. Just like u said, adjust the timing to tame the tiger from these early bikes.
     
  20. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    It *might* work reading the Pamco grounding side.

    The regular Pamco is a wasted spark system, fires twice as often as the points.
    Might need to adjust a few things in the circuit to accomodate this.

    The rephased Pamco:

    Is it a dual wasted spark, 4 firings per 720° of engine revolution?
    That would be tricky.

    Or a pair of individual coils, one per cylinder, each firing only once per 720°, same as points?
    Much easier.

    I'd have to hang the scope on the grounding wire, see what kind of signal is there.

    For those folks who want to play with the 'wrapped wire' method, there's some on the web.
    Just google: "led ignition timing light". First few items show some DIY examples.
     

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