Another Boring Engine re-Build Thread: Advice Welcome

If I'm understanding your question, all you need is the 8 washers... doesn't matter if you buy em in kit form or individually... cept' maybe the price.

It looks like they are two different types of washers though. See the screen grab below. Now that I'm reading the description better it looks like the top brass ones are for the heads and the copper washers are for the other top fasteners. Thanks!

screen grab copy.jpg
 
Ok... the kit is for the oil tube and cam guide nuts. That doesn't cover the head, so you'd need both the kit and 8 washers.
 
You don't need 8 head stud brass or copper washers, only 4. Only the outer 4 studs flow oil and need to be sealed. The inner 4 are dry. You can just re-use the original steel washers on the inner 4. The copper or brass washers replace those rubber/metal originals found on the 4 outside studs. The original recommendation here was to use the copper sealing washers from some late '70s Suzukis. This was before Mike's started selling the brass ones. Either work just fine but the Suzuki washers are a fair bit cheaper now that Mike's new owners jacked all their prices .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/suzuki/S-09168-10017.html

Or, if you're not in a hurry, you can get some really cheap from eBay .....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-Copper-Crush-Washer-Flat-Ring-Gasket-Fitting-10mmx22mmx2mm/231479115961?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

BVWCAkd.jpg
 
You don't need 8 head stud brass or copper washers, only 4. Only the outer 4 studs flow oil and need to be sealed. The inner 4 are dry. You can just re-use the original steel washers on the inner 4.
Right you are 5T. My bad....
 
You don't need 8 head stud brass or copper washers, only 4. Only the outer 4 studs flow oil and need to be sealed. The inner 4 are dry. You can just re-use the original steel washers on the inner 4. The copper or brass washers replace those rubber/metal originals found on the 4 outside studs. The original recommendation here was to use the copper sealing washers from some late '70s Suzukis. This was before Mike's started selling the brass ones. Either work just fine but the Suzuki washers are a fair bit cheaper now that Mike's new owners jacked all their prices .....

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/suzuki/S-09168-10017.html

Or, if you're not in a hurry, you can get some really cheap from eBay .....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-Copper-Crush-Washer-Flat-Ring-Gasket-Fitting-10mmx22mmx2mm/231479115961?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

BVWCAkd.jpg

Thanks a bunch! I'll put my order in today and hopefully have everything ready for next week to start building the engine back up.
 
Hi Guys,

One more question before I take a break to start putting this thing back together. I'm trying to come up with a list of parts I need to buy for the rebuild. I'm mainly looking at gaskets/fasteners, etc. I might end up purchasing bigger parts (clutch plates, etc.) later, but I for now I'm just looking for the must have. I've already purchased the gasket and seal kit, but I'm wondering if there is anything else people would recommend. I've included what I think I need to buy below. Let me know if you think I'm missing anything!

Purchase.JPG
 
A heads-up on your Top Fastener set, if it includes the Cylinder Guide Bar Nuts.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/new-engine-too-tight.47773/page-3#post-482578

Also, double check the bolt lengths, seating depths, and thread quality, of the front guide bar threads and bolts.

Also also, if replacing the top oil tube banjo bolts, there's been a couple reports of them breaking before reaching full torque...
 
I've never replaced the copper washers, always re-used the old ones. Never had any leaks. Never heard of anyone replacing the starter motor o-rings. Are you pulling the starter motor all apart? Maybe then you'd use them. Most don't bother taking the starter motor apart as long as it's working.

All Mike's topend bolts are shit and a waste of money. The plating is poor and so it the strength. No quality control as well so some may have bad threads. Best to clean up and re-use the originals. If the chrome is bad on some, best to find nicer used originals as replacements. The banjo bolts for the oil pipe often look bad because they were just cad plated. That's OK, just clean them up and paint the heads silver. You can't see them anyway once the motor and tank are installed.

One thing I do recommend are the stainless rocker shaft end caps, as seen in my pic above. They are very nice and the originals almost always have rusty Philips slots.
 
I was going to say myself that you don't need all of that stuff. Plus newer isn't necessarily better with this stuff; which is why we keep our old parts; just in case. What did you do about the pistons and sleeves and sloppy crank?
 
I've never replaced the copper washers, always re-used the old ones. Never had any leaks. Never heard of anyone replacing the starter motor o-rings. Are you pulling the starter motor all apart? Maybe then you'd use them. Most don't bother taking the starter motor apart as long as it's working.

All Mike's topend bolts are shit and a waste of money. The plating is poor and so it the strength. No quality control as well so some may have bad threads. Best to clean up and re-use the originals. If the chrome is bad on some, best to find nicer used originals as replacements. The banjo bolts for the oil pipe often look bad because they were just cad plated. That's OK, just clean them up and paint the heads silver. You can't see them anyway once the motor and tank are installed.

One thing I do recommend are the stainless rocker shaft end caps, as seen in my pic above. They are very nice and the originals almost always have rusty Philips slots.

Thanks 5twins. Good to know I can re-use the old ones. I actually took the starter motor out, so I guess I don't need the o-ring :). My thinking was better to have it and not need it then not have it when I do need it. Also good to know about the topend bolts. I was thinking I should replace all the fasteners while I was cleaning everything but if they are no good I won't do it. The only trouble now is that I'm not 100% sure I have all the fasteners. I'll look through my bags of parts to see what I have. I'll definitely get those rocker end caps, my originals are rusty so they need to be replaced.
 
I was going to say myself that you don't need all of that stuff. Plus newer isn't necessarily better with this stuff; which is why we keep our old parts; just in case. What did you do about the pistons and sleeves and sloppy crank?
Thanks for the info, definitely good to know. I still have the pistons, jugs, crank, cases and crank. I was thinking maybe going for an all out build on these when I have the cash. Rephase the crank, 750 top end, all of the other good stuff. But that could be awhile from now.
 
Great thread. Im sure this will be useful to other members. Good photos too.

If you don't mind my asking, exactly what type of blasting did you do? You mention bead blasting. You also mention soda blasting. Perhaps you could clarify, did you dry blast, soda blast or vapour blast? They are all different....

Dry blasting is the highest risk of media embedding as its so abrasive. Avoid this. The others are much safer as the vapour softens the impact and sort of peens the surface, although soda blasting is pretty average in the finish it gives. It will come out a matt grey.
As said already, as long as you are meticulous with cleaning and didn't dry blast, it will be fine. Use heat if possible for good measure. Steam cleaning is a good suggestion. I like to use a high pressure water blast too, and use compressed air. Once your finished spritz with oil, WD40, whatever. Also, I disagree with your buddies suggestion that you should blast an assembled engine. No matter how you plug it, under that kind of pressure there is a real risk of media finding a way in that you don't know about and can't clean out.
 
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Great thread. Im sure this will be useful to other members. Good photos too.

If you don't mind my asking, exactly what type of blasting did you do? You mention bead blasting. You also mention soda blasting. Perhaps you could clarify, did you dry blast, soda blast or vapour blast? They are all different....

Dry blasting is the highest risk of media embedding as its so abrasive. Avoid this. The others are much safer as the vapour softens the impact and sort of peens the surface, although soda blasting is pretty average in the finish it gives. It will come out a matt grey.
As said already, as long as you are meticulous with cleaning and didn't dry blast, it will be fine. Use heat if possible for good measure. Steam cleaning is a good suggestion. I like to use a high pressure water blast too, and use compressed air. Once your finished spritz with oil, WD40, whatever. Also, I disagree with your buddies suggestion that you should blast an assembled engine. No matter how you plug it, under that kind of pressure there is a real risk of media finding a way in that you don't know about and can't clean out.

Good question. I originally glass bead blasted the engine, and this is where I ran into problems with the glass getting embedded. I then found a used engine on craigslist for cheap, so instead of spending a ton of time on the original engine that I messed up glass beading, I tore the 2nd engine apart and vapor blasted it. All in all it was in the vapor cabinet for about 8 hours. So now I have two engines, the one I vapored that I'm building back up, and the one I glass beaded that I'll put on the shelf for a while until I get the energy/time to clean it all up. I think you're right about the dry blasting, I would never do it to an engine again, and would only go the vapor route from now on.
 
Just an FYI. Something to contemplate.
Glass bead grit sizes.
I've used the finer 9-13 grits, but on non-motorcycle projects.
GlassBeadGrit.jpg


Our XS650 OEM oil screens filter down to 150 microns, aftermarket filters at 350 microns. A paper filter modification can get you down to 25-10 microns. Glass bead hardness registers as 5.5 on the Mohs scale, softer than steels, but harder than aluminum, brass, copper.

Stoop22Kid's vapor hone experience:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/oil-in-cylinders.50128/

HotDog's case cleaning procedure to remove residual glass bead from oil galleries, post #88.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/long-rod-pistons.23581/page-5#post-446185
 
Hey everyone,
I apologize for not posting recently. My wife had a baby and work has been crazy. I'd like to start putting everything back together soon.

I let me buddy use my grinder while I was away and when I got back I saw a bunch of tiny metal dust around my parts. He didn't think to cover my parts before going nuts on the grinder. Anyways, there isn't any scratches or anything like that, but I'm worried that little metal pieces could have found their way into some of the smaller parts. My plan is to put all the parts in hot soapy water and then air dry it with my air gun to get all the left overs out. I know this will work for the jugs, cases and head, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice for how I should clean the crank and gears as they have a bunch of oil in them.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!
 
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