US also has medical tourism, those who shop go to India, Thailand and I think some of the middle east nations, where foreigner care centers offer world class health care at 3rd world prices. YHMV.
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Damn Insurance Companies rule the world!
- Thread starter Mailman
- Start date
I feel I should say, that I think the quality of available healthcare in the USA is of a very high standard. It is just so darned selective as to who gets it and who doesn’t.
12 years ago I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer. I had what was then a very leading edge form of surgery by a premier surgeon who taught this technique to surgeons from all over the country. I had my surgery performed by a Divinci Robot. Like this,
Looks like something 2M designed out in his shop!
That’s the surgeon sitting to the left staring into the machine. He’s looking at a magnified, illuminated, three dimensional image of the inside of your body. He has both hands on joysticks that control all the arms. This form of surgery is common place now, but back when I had it done, there were only two hospitals in the country that was doing it. The surgery was a complete success, I am cancer free, and only left a few half inch incisions on my abdomen that are invisible now. This was a VERY expensive surgery, but I was fortunate enough to have very good insurance at a rate I could afford because I worked for one of the largest employers in the federal government and they negotiate an affordable group rate.
If I had never found employment in the federal government and was still in the line of work I was doing prior, welding construction with NO insurance. Would I have received that kind of care? Not a chance, my cancer would’ve probably gone undetected because I couldn’t afford routine physicals, and it was a blood test (PSA) that first detected it.
12 years ago I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer. I had what was then a very leading edge form of surgery by a premier surgeon who taught this technique to surgeons from all over the country. I had my surgery performed by a Divinci Robot. Like this,
Looks like something 2M designed out in his shop!
That’s the surgeon sitting to the left staring into the machine. He’s looking at a magnified, illuminated, three dimensional image of the inside of your body. He has both hands on joysticks that control all the arms. This form of surgery is common place now, but back when I had it done, there were only two hospitals in the country that was doing it. The surgery was a complete success, I am cancer free, and only left a few half inch incisions on my abdomen that are invisible now. This was a VERY expensive surgery, but I was fortunate enough to have very good insurance at a rate I could afford because I worked for one of the largest employers in the federal government and they negotiate an affordable group rate.
If I had never found employment in the federal government and was still in the line of work I was doing prior, welding construction with NO insurance. Would I have received that kind of care? Not a chance, my cancer would’ve probably gone undetected because I couldn’t afford routine physicals, and it was a blood test (PSA) that first detected it.
Bob Kelly III
Ranch Kid from way back,.... that got Old !
So how do we change it ? everyone seams to agree the health system needs fixed so... the next step it fixing it....
when ever I said something like that my mother would pipe in and say Write your congressman ! and I'ed laugh because I knew they were already bought off and wouldn't change their views for millions ! after all kickbacks cost actions from them they don't put out they don't get any more....... so does anyone have any bright ideas ?
.....
Bob.......
when ever I said something like that my mother would pipe in and say Write your congressman ! and I'ed laugh because I knew they were already bought off and wouldn't change their views for millions ! after all kickbacks cost actions from them they don't put out they don't get any more....... so does anyone have any bright ideas ?
.....
Bob.......
Yeah, Bob, trying to take government back from the plutocrats might be a losing struggle, but as citizens we can either get mugged lying down or fight back. For a start we can acknowledge that we are currently paying huge taxes to corporate health care providers and would pay a much lower tax for universal Medicare. Then we can take a hard nosed no compromise stand and let our incumbent elected officials know that if they fail to support legislation establishing universal Medicare, we will vote for their opposition, regardless of how that opposition stands on that or any other issue. But now we're getting into politics, so I'll just point out that one candidate for a presidential nomination would have won it if he hadn't been swindled, and didn't take a penny of corporate money in his campaign. Now I'll shut up before I start ranting.
With the "so called health care" system in the US if I find out I have some long term medical problem that would bankrupt me I might just decide to buy a High horse power sport bike and see how fast it will go and leave my mark on the next bridge abutment!
Oh and yes I would buy that sport bike on time with low down payment and insurance to cover the payments!
Oh and yes I would buy that sport bike on time with low down payment and insurance to cover the payments!
Somewhat humorous, but its a sad comment on the american health system!
The average america citizen is screwed as far as health care is concerned. Griz is quite correct. It doesn't matter which party Americans elect, because its always a Plutocracy regardless! There is no political party in the USA that represents the middle class, which is a sad state of affairs. The wealthy people are in charge and they like it that way. Things can only ever change if voters are determined to make a change. I think Griz is talking about Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is the only american politician that actually has concern for the health and wellness of the average citizen.
If you look back in history, where the ruling class took all of the wealth for themselves and totally dominated the working class people, you will see that it always ends badly for the ruling class.
Funny how everyone hates politicians but see no contradiction with giving them even more power over us via a "Medicare for all". Please. You can't provide a service or product for free and expect to have more of it. It's simple economics.
And does anyone think a guy who has never held a full-time job, whose wife ran a college into the ground, but somehow able to become a multi-millionaire while being a public servant preaching socialism, is going to solve anyone's problems but his own? Pathetic.
If you want to see what single payer looks like then look at the VA.
Insurance companies are not meant to be your daddy. They are to mitigate risk. That is all. If you feel a company broke a contract with you then you have legal options.
And does anyone think a guy who has never held a full-time job, whose wife ran a college into the ground, but somehow able to become a multi-millionaire while being a public servant preaching socialism, is going to solve anyone's problems but his own? Pathetic.
If you want to see what single payer looks like then look at the VA.
Insurance companies are not meant to be your daddy. They are to mitigate risk. That is all. If you feel a company broke a contract with you then you have legal options.
Hi Gary,
if it costs less to fly to somewhere in Asia and pay for treatment there than to stay home and pay the US treatment rate instead, the US system ain't working right.
Hi XS650Guy,
like I said in post #40, Canadian medicare ain't free, it's pre-paid by taxes.
And unless they live under a tree in the wilderness, dress in animal skins and live on wild roots and berries everybody pays taxes because there's taxes on everything.
If you want to see what single payer looks like, look at the rest of the developed world. Then look at the rating of the US in terms of health care cost (hooray, we're Number One!) and standard of care (number 37, according to the World Health Organization). Medicare works well and efficiently. The VA did not because it was the military's unwanted stepchild, funded and administrated accordingly.
Imagine you're a member of the motorcycle industry, and most members are selling aftermarket parts, manuals, and additives. You're one of those dwindling few who can actually do the work, mechanical repairs, builds, restorations. The new generation of mechanics, cheaper imports from elsewhere, are only taught about oil additives that claim to fix everything.
There's a crowd marching on Washington, carrying signs,
"Free motorcycle engine overhauls is a human right!"
Time for a career change...
There's a crowd marching on Washington, carrying signs,
"Free motorcycle engine overhauls is a human right!"
Time for a career change...
I understand the group dynamic of petition and protest, and its associated latency. Great for the long term, not so for immediacy.
Envision a bus, on the side of the road with a flat tire. The driver and all the passengers are running around, engaged in a variety of activities, like arguing, fighting, making signs that say "Functional buses are a human right!", marching, some trying to flag down passerbys for help, yelling "Fix our bus!", brandishing weapons of compliance, like highly developed methods of manipulation and guilt.
I've had dreams like this.
Look stupid and just keep driving on...
Envision a bus, on the side of the road with a flat tire. The driver and all the passengers are running around, engaged in a variety of activities, like arguing, fighting, making signs that say "Functional buses are a human right!", marching, some trying to flag down passerbys for help, yelling "Fix our bus!", brandishing weapons of compliance, like highly developed methods of manipulation and guilt.
I've had dreams like this.
Look stupid and just keep driving on...
I advocate a system of survival based on knowledge and situational awareness. Can't stop a freight train by standing in the tracks, arms outstretched in a "halt" gesture. Gotta figure out how this works.
Like Mailman, I too had a serious life challenge 18 years ago. Working in the corporate environment, signed on for the insurance options.
Then, it hit. Diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, pretty bad. Doctors/hospital conferred with my medical insurance reps. Yep, pretty bad, lets just make him comfortable.
Paperwork shuffling, notifications to various parties, preparations for hospice, perhaps later when the symptoms become intolerable.
Suddenly there was a panicky flurry of activity. Seems that my life insurance folks got wind of this, and weren't going to sit by and watch a $1 million claim spill out.
I was hospitalized the next day...
Like Mailman, I too had a serious life challenge 18 years ago. Working in the corporate environment, signed on for the insurance options.
Then, it hit. Diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, pretty bad. Doctors/hospital conferred with my medical insurance reps. Yep, pretty bad, lets just make him comfortable.
Paperwork shuffling, notifications to various parties, preparations for hospice, perhaps later when the symptoms become intolerable.
Suddenly there was a panicky flurry of activity. Seems that my life insurance folks got wind of this, and weren't going to sit by and watch a $1 million claim spill out.
I was hospitalized the next day...
Life insurance has got to be the best health insurance. How else do you guarantee somebody is going to fight for you...
On the other thing, it's easier to make an argument that medical care is a human right than it is for motorcycle or bus care.
On the other thing, it's easier to make an argument that medical care is a human right than it is for motorcycle or bus care.
Politics aside, This threads title should be, Pharma Rules The World !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me and the wife, both, have had great experience with insurance and supplemental insurance from employers through three cases of cancer and follow up.
Scott
Me and the wife, both, have had great experience with insurance and supplemental insurance from employers through three cases of cancer and follow up.
Scott
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True.
But, the appeal is directed towards the keepers.
What I hear in my head is:
"I have a right to your services, efforts, and sweat".
"We have a right to control your life, ambitions, and income."
"You WILL perform according to our wishes, or else."
It's one thing to be in demand.
This smells different.
What started as a gesture to humanity becomes enforced indenture...
No matter which health care scheme rules, I'm fairly certain I will die. And from what I have seen the end won't be pretty.
I saw medical bills for my mother last year that were paid by medicare at 10 cents on the dollar and marked paid in full. A big
(biggest) part of medical costs is the providers making up for government underpaying. You won't get single payer in the US because it would reveal the emperor's lack of clothes. IE if the only revenue was medicare payments the entire system would be quickly bankrupt. The government does not pay enough for services to cover costs. Wish I had a succinct answer.
I don't have hard answers but somehow feel the "expensive" "US system manages to fund most of the worlds research and new drugs. I am not an apologist I think we have a lot of drugs instead of cures because the real money is in long term drug use.
I saw medical bills for my mother last year that were paid by medicare at 10 cents on the dollar and marked paid in full. A big
(biggest) part of medical costs is the providers making up for government underpaying. You won't get single payer in the US because it would reveal the emperor's lack of clothes. IE if the only revenue was medicare payments the entire system would be quickly bankrupt. The government does not pay enough for services to cover costs. Wish I had a succinct answer.
I don't have hard answers but somehow feel the "expensive" "US system manages to fund most of the worlds research and new drugs. I am not an apologist I think we have a lot of drugs instead of cures because the real money is in long term drug use.
Ditto, ggg. Another amazing black hole is the medical billing system.
I've never seen so much malarkey in one place.
Reminds me of the old car salesman's trick of pricing used cars based on the customer's shoes...
I've never seen so much malarkey in one place.
Reminds me of the old car salesman's trick of pricing used cars based on the customer's shoes...
xj, re. standard of care under a single payer system, it's already there for old farts like me and it works well. I've been on Medicare for the last 5 years through one heart operation (angioplasty and stent) and two bouts of retina surgery. I had excellent care all the way through. The Medicare system offers coverage options. The basics under Part A. are covered by the Social Security Administration from funds paid in by workers. Part B. coverage is optional and requires extra payments. On top of that the insured can purchase a private sector supplemental plan and a private sector prescription drug plan, so Medicare is actually a mixed system. Universal Medicare could result in a system that would set limits on charges, process claims at lower cost, eliminate waste, and allow access to additional coverage provided by the private sector, just as Medicare does now. What I don't understand is the folks my age who have and benefit from Medicare, are shrill about defending their benefits, but don't want others to have the same.
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