Nice work Meddy!! Keep the pics coming.
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My 20+ year project
- Thread starter Meddy
- Start date
bluddyell Meddy !.... I've only been away a few days and you've practically rebuilt the bike !...
I was expecting to follow this build over Christmas lol.
Good to see that you went for a Boyer Bransden. They have an excellent performance and reliability record .don't recall seeing a single post of one failing come to think of it.
Well done matey ,you've made a lot of hard work look simple and straightforward. Very nice loom rewire too
I was expecting to follow this build over Christmas lol.
Good to see that you went for a Boyer Bransden. They have an excellent performance and reliability record .don't recall seeing a single post of one failing come to think of it.
Well done matey ,you've made a lot of hard work look simple and straightforward. Very nice loom rewire too
Meddy
XS650 Addict
Cost wasn't too bad I didn't think Pete, around $300Aud Shipping to Canada my be expensive though.
Already sorted Paul
Stay tuned,I have something a little different already planned and due to be fitted soon.bluddyell Meddy !.... I've only been away a few days and you've practically rebuilt the bike !...
I was expecting to follow this build over Christmas lol.
Good to see that you went for a Boyer Bransden. They have an excellent performance and reliability record .don't recall seeing a single post of one failing come to think of it.
Well done matey ,you've made a lot of hard work look simple and straightforward. Very nice loom rewire too
Still plenty to do Peanut, the way I'm going I"ll be lucky to have it going by the following Christmas.
The Boyer Bransden won out on price alone, I was able to get mine at about half the price of a Pamco when shipping was taken into account.
Mick.
We eagerly await your "something a little different already planned and due to be fitted soon". It is always nice to learn new ways of doing things.
Meddy
XS650 Addict
The Carby rebuild.
When I pulled this bike apart all those years ago I literally just emptied the fuel out of them, wrapped them in an old T shirt and put the whole lot in a plastic bag.
I think I have been lucky.
Although the outside looked pretty average,
The internals were really good (sorry forgot to take pics of the strip down).
All of the screws undid nicely and there was no dried up deposits in the fuel chambers and all the passages seemed clear.
However I did find that the float level on the left side carby was way lower than it should be measuring at around 32mm in the upside down position, so I am thinking I may have found what originally caused the holed piston all those years ago.
It was obvious that a previous owner had been into the carbs at some stage as the main jets had some galling on them I also found that the Needles were marked as 4m1 which according to Carburetor guide on this site were used in 78 models and my 79 should have 502 needles.
The slides look to be in good condition with no sign of any perishing on the rubber I they drop very slowly when I pit my thumb over the oval port.
The only problem I had during this carb rebuild was when I went to fit them back on the bike. I had bought a new pair of carb holders earlier in the year from Ebay member cruzenimage, but for the life of me I could not get those carbs to seat on the new holders, eventually I took everything off the bike and discovered that the ones I had bought had the raised lip deeper in the mouth, so I am thinking I got ones for the later model carbs. I sent him an email to see if I can swap them, but I don't hold out much hope seeing as I bought them 6 months ago.
My original carb holders, showing about 4mm to the start of the ridge.
And the ones I bought showing about 8mm.
I have also been rebuilding the electrical switch gear whilst waiting for some parts to arrive. The write up that Peanut did on the ignition switch overhaul,
http://www.xs650.com/threads/ignition-switch-overhaul.46712/
and the one from gggGary on the Kill switch are a must read I reckon for anyone rebuilding these items.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/kill-switch-overhaul.49690/
My dialogue has now caught up to where I am in the rebuild process, today I spent some time cleaning up the old exhaust system and temporarily fitting it to the bike in preparation for me starting it up for the first time. I am still undecided on what exhaust to use so this will do for testing.
I also rigged up an auxillary fuel tank, which is just a brush cutter tank that I picked up.
And here's couple of pics taken today.
When I pulled this bike apart all those years ago I literally just emptied the fuel out of them, wrapped them in an old T shirt and put the whole lot in a plastic bag.
I think I have been lucky.
Although the outside looked pretty average,
The internals were really good (sorry forgot to take pics of the strip down).
All of the screws undid nicely and there was no dried up deposits in the fuel chambers and all the passages seemed clear.
However I did find that the float level on the left side carby was way lower than it should be measuring at around 32mm in the upside down position, so I am thinking I may have found what originally caused the holed piston all those years ago.
It was obvious that a previous owner had been into the carbs at some stage as the main jets had some galling on them I also found that the Needles were marked as 4m1 which according to Carburetor guide on this site were used in 78 models and my 79 should have 502 needles.
The slides look to be in good condition with no sign of any perishing on the rubber I they drop very slowly when I pit my thumb over the oval port.
The only problem I had during this carb rebuild was when I went to fit them back on the bike. I had bought a new pair of carb holders earlier in the year from Ebay member cruzenimage, but for the life of me I could not get those carbs to seat on the new holders, eventually I took everything off the bike and discovered that the ones I had bought had the raised lip deeper in the mouth, so I am thinking I got ones for the later model carbs. I sent him an email to see if I can swap them, but I don't hold out much hope seeing as I bought them 6 months ago.
My original carb holders, showing about 4mm to the start of the ridge.
And the ones I bought showing about 8mm.
I have also been rebuilding the electrical switch gear whilst waiting for some parts to arrive. The write up that Peanut did on the ignition switch overhaul,
http://www.xs650.com/threads/ignition-switch-overhaul.46712/
and the one from gggGary on the Kill switch are a must read I reckon for anyone rebuilding these items.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/kill-switch-overhaul.49690/
My dialogue has now caught up to where I am in the rebuild process, today I spent some time cleaning up the old exhaust system and temporarily fitting it to the bike in preparation for me starting it up for the first time. I am still undecided on what exhaust to use so this will do for testing.
I also rigged up an auxillary fuel tank, which is just a brush cutter tank that I picked up.
And here's couple of pics taken today.
The needle you need will depend on the slide type used. The 4M1 needle was used in the '76-'77 carb set. It is about 5mm shorter than the 5O2 needle. It would be way too short and rich if fitted in a '78-'79 slide. The '78-'79 carb slide holds the needle and it's associated parts in with a snap ring. The needle sits on a little spring. This sets it higher up in the slide and that is why a longer needle is required .....
The '77 and older style slide uses a large plastic disc to hold the needle in. All that holds that disc in place is the large slide return spring .....
So, you will need to determine which slide type is fitted and that will tell you which needle you need.
The '77 and older style slide uses a large plastic disc to hold the needle in. All that holds that disc in place is the large slide return spring .....
So, you will need to determine which slide type is fitted and that will tell you which needle you need.
Really enjoying watching your work Meddy! Such nice detail work!
Meddy
XS650 Addict
Many thanks 5twins, mine is definitely the second one, so the Australian versions must have stuck with the older carb set-up a couple of years longer.
Thanks Mailman.
Well, not necessarily. Slides could have been swapped. The '78-'79 type is also harder to come by. Someone may have put the older style in because that's all they could get. Even though you have the proper matching needle for your older style slide, it could still present some tuning issues. That 4M1 needle was used with a Z-8 needle jet. The 5O2 needle was paired with a Z-2 needle jet. The other jets (mains and pilots) were tailored around these needle/needle jet combos. The 4M1/Z-8 combo got 122.5 mains and 25 pilots. The 5O2/Z-2 combo got 135 mains and 27.5 pilots.
Meddy
XS650 Addict
I checked my Carbys again today and they have the 4M1 needle as pictured above, the needle jets are Z-2 and 135 mains with 27.5 pilots.
So it seems that the wrong needles were installed at some time in the past.
I also checked the specifications in my Clymer manual and it is the same as what I have apart from the 4M1 needle, it also says the 5O2 needle.
I will look for a pair of 5O2's here in Oz or from Heiden or Mikes.
So it seems that the wrong needles were installed at some time in the past.
I also checked the specifications in my Clymer manual and it is the same as what I have apart from the 4M1 needle, it also says the 5O2 needle.
I will look for a pair of 5O2's here in Oz or from Heiden or Mikes.
The 5O2 needles won't work in the slides you have. They will be too long (lean). Measured from the top clip slot down to the tip, the 4M1 is 45mm long, the 5O2 is about 50mm long. I don't have any comparison pics that include the 4M1 but do have this one showing the needle from just before that one, the 4N8. It will give you an idea of the length difference. As far as needles go, it's huge .....
I'll dig into my parts stash and compare a 4M1 to a 4N8 and 5O2. The 4M1 may be fatter (leaner). The 4N8 seems to have a very similar taper to the 5O2 and might be a better choice for you.
I'll dig into my parts stash and compare a 4M1 to a 4N8 and 5O2. The 4M1 may be fatter (leaner). The 4N8 seems to have a very similar taper to the 5O2 and might be a better choice for you.
Holy cow 5T - how the heck do you know all of this?
Wow - that’s all I’ve got.
Pete
Wow - that’s all I’ve got.
Pete
I just love to research and learn about all this obscure stuff, lol. But in the case of these needles, this is info you need to know in order to get the carbs working right. The way parts get swapped around so much on these bikes, mismatched carb parts like Meddy seems to have found are an all too common occurrence. Trying to run the earlier slide and 4M1 needle in a '78-'79 carb set may induce some strange midrange maladies. Well, it's not so much the slide but rather the different needle taper that could cause problems.
Well sir - that body of knowledge is a heck of a resource for all of us.
Thank you.
Pete
Thank you.
Pete
You should enjoy the next little research project I'm just finishing and will write up soon - an in-depth study and history of the drum rear brake plates. It's pretty common knowledge that the brake shoes were the same for all years and that the plates can be swapped into any wheel, but that seems to be about the extent of the published data on them. To give you a little teaser, over the years there were no fewer than about 5 different castings used, 2 different brake arms, 4 different camshafts, and 3 different spacers or spacer washer configurations. I just need to nail down a few more facts.
Meddy
XS650 Addict
And I thought I had a pretty well untouched original bike, just goes to show.
Many thanks 5twins for pointing this out, I will await your judgement on the appropriate needle to use.
Many thanks 5twins for pointing this out, I will await your judgement on the appropriate needle to use.
Meddy
XS650 Addict
I had a welcome delivery of parts today which gave me a good excuse to take my mind off the carbys.
A new front guard was the main item along with some smaller assorted parts.
The Guard
New throttle sleeve and cable. I thought I had ordered a new light switch knob but I had ordered the HI/Low beam one by mistake, and after looking at this picture I think I'd better get some new stickers too!!
Also received a front sprocket lock tab, but not having the chain and rear sprocket on and no brakes anyway I came up with this solution to hold the sprocket whilst torquing it up. Found another use for my clutch holding vice grip.
A new front guard was the main item along with some smaller assorted parts.
The Guard
New throttle sleeve and cable. I thought I had ordered a new light switch knob but I had ordered the HI/Low beam one by mistake, and after looking at this picture I think I'd better get some new stickers too!!
Also received a front sprocket lock tab, but not having the chain and rear sprocket on and no brakes anyway I came up with this solution to hold the sprocket whilst torquing it up. Found another use for my clutch holding vice grip.
Coming along nicely Meddy!
Hey I like the clutch tool idea for holding the sprocket. Brilliant!
I just happen to have that tool. Much better idea than my method of jamming a block of wood between the sprocket and the case! Haha!
Great work Meddy!
I just happen to have that tool. Much better idea than my method of jamming a block of wood between the sprocket and the case! Haha!
Great work Meddy!
