Swing arm Bushings

Orion61

Orion61

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My 650 is in pretty bad need of swing arm bushings, I was wondering about your thoughts of, OEM plastic, Brass, Ball bearing, or Roller bearing replacements.
What are the plus or minus of each?
I would think the roller bearing bushings would be better because of the superior surface
area over ball bearings. Plastic? well If I'm going to go through the work, I don't think Plastic will be going into something that could fail and kill me at 75mph!!:yikes:
thanks
Orion
 
All Balls has a complete roller bearing rebuild kit for $45.00 Shipped..
Why are they so much cheaper than everybody else?
Their dust boots for fork seals $10 for a set, everybody else $34.00 etc?
 
I went with TC Bros bushings. Price was right and anything is better than OEM. My SG has less than 28k miles on her when I changed the OEM bushings out. One side practicly fell out and the other just needed a light tap to be removed. The new bushings went in just as easy. I'm still rebuilding, so I haven't felt the difference.
 
Never used em. You get what you pay for I guess. Maybe good, maybe not. You would probably want to use a new pivot bolt too with needle bearings unless yours is perfect, so figure in that cost along with everything else.
 
Orion61 said:
My 650 is in pretty bad need of swing arm bushings, I was wondering about your thoughts of, OEM plastic, Brass, Ball bearing, or Roller bearing replacements.
What are the plus or minus of each?
I would think the roller bearing bushings would be better because of the superior surface
area over ball bearings. Plastic? well If I'm going to go through the work, I don't think Plastic will be going into something that could fail and kill me at 75mph!!:yikes:
thanks
Orion
Click to expand...
.......................hi i,d go for bronze bushes ,,,along with a new spindle shaft and the light tube that also goes along the shaft ,,its not going to cost alot to go all the way and then forget ,once its done.... thats the way i,m goingfor shure i purchased the new shaft/and bronze bushes i only need to get the sheet metal tube thing that goes over the bolt regards oldbiker
 
Grease them well and bronze bushings will last long. Needle bearings initially work great but in a swingarm application, the tiny needles only move a small amount through the arm travel, if not serviced they wear small detents in both corresponding inner and outer bearing surfaces leading to a notchy feel. Bronze for me as well!! :thumbsup:
 
I'm with you oldbiker, I fitted up brass bushes with a new pivot tube, didn't need the through bolt so just cleaned the grease holes out and fitted it back with new nipples and dust washers, greased both sides up and rides like new.
The needle roller bearing kit is probably better but I can't really see the point and am sure I'd never notice the difference in handling.
Well greased brass bushes for me :thumbsup:
 
Done a couple of bronze conversions. worked well for me. Like all old bike work it's not the parts as much as the installation. There are a couple of good threads on doing it. This is a "set up" required project. Setting side clearance is the key. Do it right and everything is good do it wrong and it could be worse than what you started with.

The stock "plastic" bushings worked fine if they were lubed every few years. But even that minimal maintenance was seldom done on many bikes.
I have a couple sets of the needle bearing all balls but have not installed them yet. I have bought bronze bushings with flanges that were "too thick" and needed machining before they could be installed correctly.

This thread points out some pitfalls
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22106

Here's one removal tool http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16387

how to make your own bushings

I think this thread covers it the best
 
If the kit has double-needle roller bearing on both ends, then that's the way to go!
Included in the kit should get a new pivot shaft or sleeve, that has the ground surface which is perfect.
The brass or phor'-bronze will serve well, sometimes needs an adjustable reamer to remove a small amount of bushing where the inside diameter shrinks a little when pressed into the swing-arm. Forget the plastics.
RegardZ.
 
The needle kit comes with double needle bearing/bushings, a new swing arm rod and caps/seals
Seems like a heck of a deal, I plan to use heat on the swing arm and put the bearings and rod in the freezer overnight. That should help with fitting it in. I am also going to drill and tap for a grease fitting to pump some synthetic Super lube grease in there. should last the life of the bike, IF I don't screw it up...
 
IMHO you should not have to freeze a needle bearing to assemble it, they aren't designed for an interference fit, they should just be a nice snug slide in fit. I'll have to put one of sets I have on a bike, see how it goes together. Cobbed em off Amazon for like $32 each with shipping.
 
Agree with Ggg, no heat, no freeze, just ensure cleanliness in bore of swingarm and pivot.
not much thickness for grease nipple.... Good luck!
RegardZ.
 
Thanks guys, I'll take your advice, I have always had better luck with seals when I cooled them down, never replaced bushings like these before. All I know is it feels a little sloppy when riding.
What else could I need? I have ridden these since the 70's :bike: but never really had to work on one before.
The worst thing I remember were tiny oil dots on the back of a riders shirt.:shrug:
 
I re=read and I guess maybe I took your statement wrong. Yes; getting the outer race or bronze bushing into the swing arm can be "a bit tight" if it's right though, a chunk of threaded rod and and a couple of nuts and washers should run them right in. Yes cold will help but shouldn't be "needed" and yes a lot of the stock bushings are junk and need replacing. A lot of the original "sleeves" are corroded and worn useless too. That makes the needle bearing kit with all parts very attractive, I will report how it goes when I put one in. Several have bought bronze bushings that apparently were not machined correctly and there were some big problems getting everything to work right. I have a set like that myself they're sitting out in the shed, not installed. A few of the "solutions" involving roto-tools, files, sand paper and the like had me cringing. I may try "line reaming them but a reamer is more expensive than a new set of bushings. and I think using it may require some serious learning or set up to get it right.
OK, only install with a press ie threaded rod and nuts. washers, it should not require big pressure to push them in, if it does something's not right.
 
The problem or quandry I guess is the two bushings need to be "line reamed" so both bores are round and perfectly aligned otherwise the whole exercise is somewhat pointless........
I looked on flea bay and a cheesy low quality straight shank reamer can be delivered to your door for about 11 USD, no matter how bad it is, it's gotta be better than????
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1Pc-Straight-Shank-Reamer-Select-Size-From-2mm-to-20mm-/180985964278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2a239aa6f6

An adjustable reamer might be even better but aligning both sides to get a "line bore" would probably need some thought and set up of the reamer to achieve. If you do all that then just "crush the frame in" to take up side play you have likely defeated the whole purpose.

Oddly the "best solution" after needle bearings? is probably undersized bushings "line reamed" to size in place. This would be better than perfectly sized bushings that weren't reamed. I am probably overthinking this, but maybe not? Some later model bikes designed to handle, use tapered rollers with take up nuts to accurately and firmly position the swing arm. Well that's my 2 cents.
 
I believe it will be Ok to use a roto tool, as such, to ease the beginning of the hole for the pressing of bearings into the swing-arm [only the first, say, 5mm.]. Remembering that cleanliness of the bore is paramount before lightly pressing the bearings home.
The double roller swing arm bearings are much easier to fit than the plain bronze bearing with that critical length distance piece.
RegardZ.
 
Remember guys, the XS swingarm is made out of pipe and not an engineering masterpeice. Bronze bushes pushed in by gggary's method shouldn't need any other finishing unless the bushes suck to start with or the pipe is bent, whereby I'd be looking for what is wrong if that's the case.
I tapped my new bushes in with a hammer and hardwood drift without any problems after cleaning everything up and greasing the OD of the new bushes and ID of the swingarm pipe. The new, greased, pivot tube then slid straight through the bushes. Freezing can only help providing you are ready to instal without delay once you remove parts from the freezer, wasting your time if you don't.
 
I plan to replace my SA grease seals. Is the set from MikesXS a good option are are there better options out there?

Thankfully, my long bushing/ shaft fell out almost on its own.
 

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