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The Centerstand Challenge - Lift Assist Handle
- Thread starter TwoManyXS1Bs
- Start date
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- Tags
- centerstand frame
On many bikes, the centerstand was almost like an afterthought. Basically, it was placed where it fit best, not at the ideal balance point between the front and rear of the bike. Lift handles, if even provided, were the same. Many are way too far back to help as much as they could and should. The BMW R bikes from the '70s were an exception to this. They actually designed the stand to function as a work stand, and placed it accordingly. They also placed the lift handle almost directly above it which gave very good lift. The stand was placed practically at the balance point front to rear. Remove either wheel and the bike would rock back on the other one. In normal use, the bike sat gently on the rear wheel. But, if you lifted that wheel up off the ground, you could easily spin the bike around in a circle on the stand.
Yeah, that 1:2 lever ratio looks pretty bad.
I think I've found a possible first attack on this thing.
When I was goofing with the centerstand and taking pictures, I noticed that the initial contact point of the centerstand's looped feet was right at the same place that the centerstand's legs are welded to the loops.
The rolling loops are squashed in that area, probably from 45 years of use.
I remember when I turned 45. Started gettin' tired by then.
So, I'm thinking a viable attack would be to heat and recurve those centerstand feet/loops.
Maybe even a little more aggressively than the OEM curve. Get that contact point out there.
That'll change the initial leverage ratio to a much better value.
Anybody else have reports on those 'squashed' loops?
I think I've found a possible first attack on this thing.
When I was goofing with the centerstand and taking pictures, I noticed that the initial contact point of the centerstand's looped feet was right at the same place that the centerstand's legs are welded to the loops.
The rolling loops are squashed in that area, probably from 45 years of use.
I remember when I turned 45. Started gettin' tired by then.
So, I'm thinking a viable attack would be to heat and recurve those centerstand feet/loops.
Maybe even a little more aggressively than the OEM curve. Get that contact point out there.
That'll change the initial leverage ratio to a much better value.
Anybody else have reports on those 'squashed' loops?
wrenchjohns
XS650 Addict
In 1976 I weighed in at 160 and if memory serves, I could simply step on the xs1's stand lever and pull the handlebars back to get the bike up. I think age and infirmity may now be causing ALL of the getting it up issues. Damn getting old sucks!
About the same here, wrenchjohns. I'm hoping some of that may be in bent loops.
Preliminary calcs show, if I can get aggressive enuff with recurving, the leverage ratio changes to 5:8.
That actually puts a significant dent in the lift table above.
I'm showing that could reduce the lift, for a 180lb rider, from 140lbs to 115lbs.
And his foot pressure from 320lbs to 295lbs...
Preliminary calcs show, if I can get aggressive enuff with recurving, the leverage ratio changes to 5:8.
That actually puts a significant dent in the lift table above.
I'm showing that could reduce the lift, for a 180lb rider, from 140lbs to 115lbs.
And his foot pressure from 320lbs to 295lbs...
Gordon in nc
XS650 Junkie
Good Lord.....2M is like that battery bunny.....get him cranked up and he never stops!!!!! You gota LOVE that!
Okay.....no report yet on squashed loops but I did strike out on the highway peg.......1" dia and the tube is 11/8" or probably a metric size but I have a hard time with those numbers. (28.68mm????). Anyway the peg is 1" so for now it's on the shelf.
So the search continues and I'm thinking (remember I'm CHEAP and I've already wasted 5$) along the lines of the 3 piece clamp I use on my sidecar rig for the VW steering damper.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/75375/i/drag-specialties-three-piece-frame-clamp
with one of these pegs
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4255/i/bikemaster-buddy-footpegs
With this set up I should be able to mount the tang (for lack of a better term) of the frame clamp rearward and it should clear everything......might have to trim the inner fender a bit but I would like to be able to try this thing out a different heights to see what works best for me.
Shock bolt mount is out for me.....too high and the hard bags are in the way. Who ever mentioned the highway peg mount was going to cause clearance problems.....good eye, yes it would have and probably wasn't worth the trouble. Lesson learned, more research before purchase. For me, the stock lever was never much help either...too high. I agree 100%....... getting old has a LOT to do with it. Longer shocks.......I know 5 Twins has to be correct about the advantages of using them.....I trust him completely, but.....my only real gripe with the XS is it feels top heavy when I'm pushing it around and would think longer shocks would exaggerate that feeling.
Keep up the good work 2M we'll get this sorted one way or the other.....I'm all ears (now that I don't have any hair left)
Report on more wasted money as soon as UPS makes their rounds.
Gordon in NC
Okay.....no report yet on squashed loops but I did strike out on the highway peg.......1" dia and the tube is 11/8" or probably a metric size but I have a hard time with those numbers. (28.68mm????). Anyway the peg is 1" so for now it's on the shelf.
So the search continues and I'm thinking (remember I'm CHEAP and I've already wasted 5$) along the lines of the 3 piece clamp I use on my sidecar rig for the VW steering damper.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/75375/i/drag-specialties-three-piece-frame-clamp
with one of these pegs
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4255/i/bikemaster-buddy-footpegs
With this set up I should be able to mount the tang (for lack of a better term) of the frame clamp rearward and it should clear everything......might have to trim the inner fender a bit but I would like to be able to try this thing out a different heights to see what works best for me.
Shock bolt mount is out for me.....too high and the hard bags are in the way. Who ever mentioned the highway peg mount was going to cause clearance problems.....good eye, yes it would have and probably wasn't worth the trouble. Lesson learned, more research before purchase. For me, the stock lever was never much help either...too high. I agree 100%....... getting old has a LOT to do with it. Longer shocks.......I know 5 Twins has to be correct about the advantages of using them.....I trust him completely, but.....my only real gripe with the XS is it feels top heavy when I'm pushing it around and would think longer shocks would exaggerate that feeling.
Keep up the good work 2M we'll get this sorted one way or the other.....I'm all ears (now that I don't have any hair left)
Report on more wasted money as soon as UPS makes their rounds.
Gordon in NC
Well, this bunny pootered-out. Time for dinner and a nap.
The only sideview pic I have of an XS650 with saddlebags.
Do yours set more forward?
The only sideview pic I have of an XS650 with saddlebags.
Do yours set more forward?
Gordon in nc
XS650 Junkie
No sir, I think they actually sit a little more rearward?
Even bunnies have to rest sometimes.........Gordon
angus67
Welder's penetrate deeper!!
Bored, or what? Ive got a 1980 here bobbed out, except the center stand is in use untill done. The bike is lowered about 1.5", and it really isnt a chore to get it on the cs.
Turn bars lock left, left foot on the cs peg, left hand on left grip, right hand under seat , and muscle that mofo up on the stand.my stock 71 pracically does it by itself. Btw, im 44. Feel old yet? Dont worry, after 40 i started sitting on my balls.
Turn bars lock left, left foot on the cs peg, left hand on left grip, right hand under seat , and muscle that mofo up on the stand.my stock 71 pracically does it by itself. Btw, im 44. Feel old yet? Dont worry, after 40 i started sitting on my balls.
The U shaped bracket for these would be thin enough to fit.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-Ha...ash=item1eb4e723e0:g:bg0AAOSwdzVXj9sn&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-Ha...ash=item1eb4e723e0:g:bg0AAOSwdzVXj9sn&vxp=mtr
Gordon in nc
XS650 Junkie
Weekender, They are going to be my next try if what I have coming doesn't work. For now I want something I can adjust until I find the best position for me. I'm pretty sure that position won't work for everybody and I would hate to weld something in place then wish I had moved it 1" one way or the other.
I'm thinking if I can get it low enough for my knees to bend a bit, (I'm only 5'-8" and will only get shorter as time slips by) I can lift with my legs instead of my arms. Those type of frame clamps you linked to probably have the thinnest bracket I'll find. You shouldn't have to trim the inner fender with them.....at least on the B model.
Angus67.....44 heh. Man oh man......I only have a couple of decades+ on you and went through quintuple bypass surgery back in November. Not making excuses but I'm just not the man I was 22 years ago. I hope for your sake you continue on in good health and in 2038 your XS still puts itself up on the centerstand without any effort from you.
Gordon in NC
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I'm telling you, grease is a wonderful thing, lol. I just greased all the fittings on the bike the other day (I've added several extras). My already easy to operate centerstand got even easier. The sidestand is just wonderful when it's pivot is kept greased as well. Although I always kept it oiled, my kicker felt a bit stiff and bound up whenever I'd fold it out. A grease nipple there fixed that problem .....
Gordon in nc
XS650 Junkie
5Twins..... yes sir, don't you think for a second I'm ignoring your advise. You might note in my photo of my bike the centerstand is still in red zinc? That stand will be replaced with another.......just as soon as I take the time to turn on the compresser and sand blast, paint and swap it out for another one I have here in the shop. I WILL add the grease fittings to that one.....you can count on it. But......I'm pretty sure when my bike is loaded down with camping gear....and if I stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting it up on the centerstand, I'm still going to need help....grease or not. Without the camping gear I can get it up....it's just a strain. I greased the temp stand with waterproof ( yes, some types of grease will wash away with water...how do you think you can get those greasy cooking dishes clean?????) and I'm pretty sure it's still well greased.....but with the fittings they take any doubt out.
There are several people on here I listen to......you're one of them.
Gordon
There are several people on here I listen to......you're one of them.
Gordon
Love that Yamaha Script!
Hi Gordon,
Don't give up on your $5 expenditure yet, eh?
Shove a 1-1/16" (27mm) or 1-1/8" (28.68mm) metal cutting hole-saw in your drill press (remembering that those bastards cut a bit oversize) and open up your bargain's clamping eye to fit the frame tube.
2many; cut the tang off, weld it on the other side now your "good" arm is handy.
Now, there's a clever idea. Or just add a tang.
I'd have to retrain the bike, tho'. Some of them get upset when you do stuff from the right side.
Been nipped in the arm before.
Forget all those outrageous 'lift' values posted earlier. Sleep deprevation, and got so involved in the math, forgot to consider that the bike is supported by the suspension. The full loads aren't realized until the rear tire clears the ground, at which point the centerstand's leverage is much better. Wrote a program to simulate this, and the 'lift' values are actually a curved gradient, peaks about half the previous values. I'll post a pic of those curves after I get better measurements, and hopefully remember how to do this.
Using a wood dowel, figured the ideal height for a lift handle (for me) is about 2" below the upper shock mount.
That would certainly slip in there, not interfere with the sidecover. We used to sell and install those things back when. Simple concept. Will have to look for those bracket/clamps now...
FWIW, a long ago memory just surfaced, perhaps triggered by reading this string.
back in the 1950s I remember seeing a pre-war Rudge that had a hand lever and linkage to it's main stand.
The rider just stayed sitting on the saddle with his feet on the floor and hauled back on the lever to make the bike park itself.
back in the 1950s I remember seeing a pre-war Rudge that had a hand lever and linkage to it's main stand.
The rider just stayed sitting on the saddle with his feet on the floor and hauled back on the lever to make the bike park itself.
Hey, Fred! Old memories bubbling up? Fun, huh?
I've never encountered a Rudge. Interesting contraption, that lever-operated centerstand.
http://www.vintage-motorcycle.com/index.php?language=en&site=4&pid=43&id=23220&limit=0
But, I'm not having much luck finding out how that thing worked...
I've never encountered a Rudge. Interesting contraption, that lever-operated centerstand.
http://www.vintage-motorcycle.com/index.php?language=en&site=4&pid=43&id=23220&limit=0
But, I'm not having much luck finding out how that thing worked...
