Wiring from Scratch

[pamcopete]

So is safe to say if the PMA was working correctly I would see a spark?

The capacitor is like a bucket with holes in the bottom. You can still use it to carry water, but you have to move fast.

A battery is like a bucket without the holes. The water will very slowly evaporate, but it could take days.

The PMA has to continually supply current to the capacitor because the load will drain it in seconds.

My standard recommendation is to temporarily wire the ignition system to a fully charged battery so you can get the engine running to enable you to check / troubleshoot the PMA and regulator.

 

[figure8]

Thanks Pete.

 

[figure8]

Had a busy past week so not much progress. Hoping to get some time in the garage today. I'd like to run all ground back to the cap so if anyone has any suggestions on how I can do so nice and clean input is appreciated. Kinda thinking I'll have to splice them all together to one terminal going to the cap. If anyone has any better suggestions I'm all ears.

 

[girard]

Had a busy past week so not much progress. Hoping to get some time in the garage today. I'd like to run all ground back to the cap so if anyone has any suggestions on how I can do so nice and clean input is appreciated. Kinda thinking I'll have to splice them all together to one terminal going to the cap. If anyone has any better suggestions I'm all ears.

I was also trying to figure out what to do for that. I'm thinking I might mount a stud in my electrical box and bring all the grounds to that.

 

[member3480]

Like I said before run one ground wire (BLACK) from front of bike to tail light. Leave enough wire at backbone to go to 12mm bolt that is factory ground. Now you have one complete ground front to back and any other grounds that you need can attach to that ground.

 

[figure8]

Sounds good, just use a ring terminal for grounds? I'm doing a very open bike so trying to hide stuff as best I can. Suggestion on best place put the ground. The reg will be in the stock position. Pic for reference...old factory ground is long gone. Thoughts on running internal wiring?

 

[member3480]

Here are pictures of what I said. I used WHITE WIRE so you can see it but it should be BLACK for ground.
LINE from front of bike to tail light (back of bike) and loop so that would go to ground with a connector on it. That's it full ground front to back and you can attach to it anywhere from front to back and have one complete ground.
LOOP gets connector and goes to 12mm bolt on back of motor.

 

[member3480]

Internal wiring is hard but what I did do for a builder of many custom bikes on here (DIZON) we ran wires from headlight down the front down tube and under bike so you don't see many wires. My harness came out good and blended in with frame.

 

[figure8]

Apologies for the lack of update here. My mom lost her battle with cancer recently so my xs sat on the sidelines for the past couple months. I'm back at it now, just picked so more various terminals and connectors so I'll get some pics posted up tonight. I'm trying to think of a way to make my own battery posts. Not sure if I could just use some SS bolts through the frame, well for the grounds I of course could. Something like these I posted above. I am no longer gonna be using a cap alone, though I may wire it in with the small battery I'm gonna run.

 

[fredintoon]

Hi figure8,
condolences on losing your mom and there is absolutely no way you need to apologise for being with her instead of working on your bike.
I just lost my ex. to liver cancer and we are in the midst of a brother-in-law's terminal lung cancer so I know exactly how you were feeling.
Back to bike wiring, as you are now going to use a battery, WhyTF do you need a capacitor at all?

 

[XSLeo]

Weak grounds on light cab blow bulbs. One blew a couple H4 headlight bulbs before I realized it was a weak ground.
On my 75 I have the battery ground hooked to the frame with a heavy cable, I run a second heavy ground cable down to a start mount bolt.
I don't know how I got the letters to slant but anyway, I have a junction block for all my grounds. I run grounds from everything that needs grounds to this junction block. I have a heavy wire, 10 ga. as I recall from this junction block the where the battery grounds bolts to the frame.
I always get the charging system wired up first. when I'm sure it's ok I them wire the ignition. This way I can kick start the bike and check the ignition for proper function. I also check the charging system for proper function. Once I know it runs and charges I then add the extras, Add a fuse run the wires to what ever I want to operate then to ground.
I use one 20 amp fuse for a main fuse, then mostly 10 amps for other things. One 10 amp to run most of the things like lights. head and tail on one fuse. turns, brakes on another, horn often gets one of it's own, loud horns draw a lot of current. I had one set need a 15 amp fuse. The ignition can run on a 7.5 amp fuse.
If you want more just add a fuse run the wires, easy to do,
Leo

 

[retiredgentleman]

Quote:
"I am no longer gonna be using a cap alone, though I may wire it in with the small battery I'm gonna run."

I agree with fredintoon......................what's with this fascination to use a capacitor as part of the charging system?? Capacitors compare very poorly with batteries. Capacitors are not a source of much power.................they can temporarily hold a small charge( i.e OK for some voltage filtering). Batteries can supply a real amount of power i.e amps and voltage.

 

[XSLeo]

I like those terminals, WOW no more slanting. They look like a good thing to use on my boat. Run a set of wires up from the battery to those for charging. much easier than hooking the charger to the battery. Where did you get them and how much?'
Leo

 

[figure8]

Not gonna quote every here so hopefully all who responded catch this. Thank you for your condolences Fred, it was a tough road to travel.

As far as the cap I'm going to be running a very small battery, 12V .8ah. So I'm thinking of using the cap as a back up should my battery fail. Just something to get me home should I need it.

Since I've started this thread I've welded a small tray under the seat so that's what lead to maybe using those battery posts I posted. I found them on eBay for $15, I can post up a link if you like Leo. Since the battery I'm gonna use doesn't have post on it I thought using those would be a good way to tie everything together. Just run a terminal from my battery to the post and have all my in need lights/ignition go through the fuse box to the post. Same for negative. Anybody see an issue in doing so?

 

[figure8]

To give a better visual this is where everything will end up under my seat. Each light will go through a 10a fuse, ignition through a 7.5 and regulator from PMA through 20a main. Coming outta the fuse box each wire for power will go to the positive post like the one I showed above where they'll marry to a terminal coming from the battery to the same post.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Quote:
"As far as the cap I'm going to be running a very small battery, 12V .8ah. So I'm thinking of using the cap as a back up should my battery fail. Just something to get me home should I need it."

I'd say you have that backwards. If the PMA starts to fail while out on the road, its the battery that will provide some power to the ignition to drive home. The capacitor cannot provide power for the ignition.

 

[figure8]

I get what you're saying, but as you quoted I didn't say if the PMA fails, I said if the battery fails...

 

[fredintoon]

Hi figure8,
quotes and misquotes aside, here's what I reckon:-
If you run PMA/Capacitor and any part of the system fails the engine will stop right away and it's push the bike home time.
If you run PMA/Battery and the PMA fails the battery will get you home but if the battery fails the engine will stop and it's push the bike home time.
If you run PMA/Capacitor/Battery and the Capacitor fails the PMA/Battery will get you home and if the PMA/Capacitor fails the battery will get you home and all three will have to quit before it's push the bike home time.
So you are right, the PMA/Capacitor/Battery system does offer the best chance that the ignition will keep on working.
Mind you, in all the years that I've owned my XS650 it's had batteries that died in their sleep during winterization but it's never had a battery that died on the job.

 

[figure8]

Good to know Fred, just didn't see the harm in throwing in a little backup should I need it. More pics to come tonight...,

 

[figure8]

Little update, rather than order the battery post terminals I posted above I decided to try these little two hole brackets I found in the spare parts bin at work at. Drilling the holes through the tray and using hardware to secure them should give me some nice posts to tie everything together, with the added plus of having four posts to use over two, I'll expand on that later. Every item is soldered and shrink wrapped back to the tray so I just gotta start chipping away at it.