Considering a backup ignition system on my 77XS650 for a long trip

[Bob Wegman]

I am considering riding my 77 XS650 to California from NY this spring. Of course I would like to have a trouble free ride, one concern I have is the ability of the alternator and ignition system to make it all the way. It is working fine now. This is what I am thinking. I have an extra alternator and rotor from a 80 TCI model XS650. I would install that on the 77 XS650 and disable the ignition points system. If the TCI system fails enroute then switch back to the points system. So, my questions are; What alterations to the wiring system do I need to do to disable the TCI system and switch to the points system and vise versa. Also, are the ignition coils the same between the two systems.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I am considering riding my 77 XS650 to California from NY this spring. Of course I would like to have a trouble free ride, one concern I have is the ability of the alternator and ignition system to make it all the way. It is working fine now. This is what I am thinking. I have an extra alternator and rotor from a 80 TCI model XS650. I would install that on the 77 XS650 and disable the ignition points system. If the TCI system fails enroute then switch back to the points system. So, my questions are; What alterations to the wiring system do I need to do to disable the TCI system and switch to the points system and vise versa. Also, are the ignition coils the same between the two systems.

That sounds like too much PITA.
The rotor? Is it OEM or rewound? If it’s OEM, send it to @Jim for a rewind. You’re done with that.
Points? What can go wrong that you can’t fix on the side of the road?
Or, convert to TCI now. Same deal. Rewind rotor first. Pack a spare TCI box and maybe a spare pickup coil. Done.

Now, ride it to the edge of the Earth!

 

[Raymond]

Travel is an adventure - you gotta have Faith.

 

[DogBunny]

You'd need different coils.
If you ask me, no offense, your idea is crazy. Points don't really "fail" in my opinion, they just need periodic cleaning and adjustment. Adjust the points before you leave, and you'll make the whole trip just fine. Carry a spare set of points, condensers, coils, if that makes you feel better.

 

[Its been a long time]

Just change the consumable parts like points, condensers, plugs, caps and maybe the leads. And don't take a backward look. You'll be fine. On a bike as old as this, there's many other things more likely to fail than a stone age points ignition system. IMHO.

 

[jetmechmarty]

Just change the consumable parts like points, condensers, plugs, caps and maybe the leads. And don't take a backward look. You'll be fine. On a bike as old as this, there's many other things more likely to fail than a stone age points ignition system. IMHO.

If the rotor is original and never rewound. I will bet money that it will leave you stranded. It has aged out. Send it off for rewind.

 

[Jim]

There's 3 ways you could go that makes sense. Before that, get the rotor rewound as Marty says. It's old and prone to (age related) failure. Going with a TCI capable rotor gives you more options. There's a guy down in Ga that rewinds 'em as well as me. Last I checked, my service is cheaper. I believe Marty has his contact info. Both of us have a good record/reputation.
Either way you go, I'd highly recommend starting a trip like you're planning with a fresh rotor. One less thing to worry about or pack spares for. Anyway, on to the three....

1. Points only: Install new (OEM) points and condenser, and replace the coils with more modern ones. As Dogbunny says, points don't really fail, they're about as simple and reliable as you can get. Stone age simple. Spares would be easy to pack for 'cause they're small and light.
Fwiw, back in the day I took a points XS on multiple trips 'tween Fla and N Mex. Never had a minutes trouble with 'em.

2. Convert to TCI: You'd need a TCI rotor and stator, and a TCI box. So this isn't going to be a cheap option, but it's the best in my opinion. The stator is almost bulletproof. The rotor will need replacing with the TCI capable version... and the box is light enough to pack a spare... or you could carry a few Gonzo boxes. Marty knows a guy that reconditions the boxes. Do all that and you'd have a set and forget system, dead reliable system.

3. Do as you suggest and wire the bike for both systems. I have a test run engine that I've done exactly that to... points and TCI. Switching 'tween the two involves flipping a toggle switch and swapping plug leads. About a 30 second task. Mine is that way for testing purposes, but it's easily doable to any bike.

Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[Jan_P]

I don't think there is such a thing as a trouble free trip with these bikes
Now age is a factor a 1977 to 2024
45 years or so . So there is a high likelihood something can happen
A seal or whatever ..
You will need tools with you and other things that can help if an unplanned stop happens.

A service before leaving and the normal spares Spark plugs points and what you feel is needed.
I would not rewind the rotor if it is OK . I would check if the spare rotor is usable with the other setup
But I doubt I would take it with me .Weight and space

If you have a voltmeter on the bike should the rotor go bad no charging you have some time to run before it stalls.
Getting it to a place where repair is possible .
There is not so much room for a lot of extras .. This trip will take a while so you need clothes and so
Nice trip --Adventure
I rarely run long days at Highway Speeds ..Never have and if you plan to do it Perhaps Forward mounted footrests is something to consider giving the possibility to change seating position and a small fairing

 

[Jim]

If you have a voltmeter on the bike should the rotor go bad no charging you have some time to run before it stalls.
Getting it to a place where repair is possible .

To the best of my knowledge, there's two people that rewind XS rotors here in the States.... me and a guy in Ga.... neither of which will be close to his 2500+ mile route. $105 for peace of mind is money well spent in my opinion.

 

[toglhot]

PMA.

 

[Jim]

So, my questions are; What alterations to the wiring system do I need to do to disable the TCI system and switch to the points system and vise versa. Also, are the ignition coils the same between the two systems.

Sorry, just reread your post. We ain't addressed your questions...

Wiring changes are pretty minimal. Would be pretty easy to do and pretty easy for us to walk you through. On a 1-5 it's prolly down at a 2.
No, coils aren't the same. For the TCI, your best bet is a used MP80 Honda coil. You can usually get one for 20 bucks or so on Ebay. I wouldn't suggest one of the new MP08's most are Chinese made now and I personally wouldn't trust 'em.

If you pull the trigger on this, I'll make up a wiring diagram based off the wiring on my test stand.

 

[jetmechmarty]

To the best of my knowledge, there's two people that rewind XS rotors here in the States.... me and a guy in Ga.... neither of which will be close to his 2500+ mile route. $105 for peace of mind is money well spent in my opinion.

This, or @Jim. Either way, it's good from now on.

 

[Jan_P]

Last time I did it it ( Rewinding ) was at a company rewinding large electrical motors for farming and so
- there was ca 3 possible within a 80 km radius

And New is also possible from Mikes even if not so good Quality

 

[GLJ]

If I was running a points bike on a trip I would carry 1 or 2 sets of new points, feeler gauge, a condenser and a coil or 2. Then you have everything to fix anything that could go wrong that would need special parts. Some wire and a DVOM would not hurt.
On my XS2 if I'm making a trip longer than a day I put on my saddle bags. The right saddle bag is bike stuff. In it is spare tubes, tire irons, 12DC air compressor, quart of oil, chain lube, wire ties, fuel line, some extra tool, DVOM and a complete Boyer ignition system.I run a Boyer ignition. Plus a few other things. Under the seat I always carry a master link, set of spark plugs and tools.
The reason for the extra Boyer ignition is if I need a Boyer part finding it on the road would be slim. Now with all that being said the one time I had a problem was when I was 3 states from home. Bike died going down the interstate. Long story short my fuel filters plugged up. Guess what I did not have with me. Luckily I was able to remove the filters and connect the fuel lines to the petcocks. Finished the trip with no other problems.
If you have it with you you probably will not need it, if you don't then it's a coin flip.

 

[toglhot]

Why stop at a backup ignition system. There are plenty of other things to go wrong with a 50 year old bike. Make a towbar for your bike and drag a spare bike behind you, that way you'll have plenty of parts, no matter what goes wrong.

 

[DogBunny]

Do as you suggest and wire the bike for both systems. I have a test run engine that I've done exactly that to... points and TCI. Switching 'tween the two involves flipping a toggle switch and swapping plug leads. About a 30 second task. Mine is that way for testing purposes, but it's easily doable to any bike.

Here's an interesting idea that I've never run across. I got it from an old post from retiredgentleman that I pasted below. I considered starting a new thread with this idea, but decided instead to add it here because it is relevant to the OP's thread starter.

The idea is simple. You connect both points sets together, and then use a dual tower coil. This way, the OP (or Jim) could switch between points ignition and TCI ignition without changing coils or swapping plug leads. Would make Jim's 30 second task a one second task.

The use of points and a high output coil(s), is really an oxymoron. Points are limited to 4 ohms, or greater, primary resistance. So that rules out using the high output coils that are down in the 3 ohm range.

You could use the #17-6822 coil (4.5 ohm primary) that Mikesxs sells. Its a dual output, lost spark type, so you fire the coil every 360 degree crank rotation. To do this you need to connect both sets, of the stock points, in parallel.

If you later decide to go with a Pamco, this coil will also work with the Pamco.

 

[Melnic]

I have NOT taken a long trip (longer than 3hrs) on a motorcycle before, nor have I had my XS650 that long but It came with a blown rotor, popped diode on a rectifier and an over voltage set Regulator.
Changing a rotor means you need tools. I had an impact driver, rotor tool and some other hand tools. Some thoughts as an alternative:
If you really want spares, box up some items that could be next day shipped to you from someone. If you have a failure, have parts shipped to you and you will lose a day. You could carry a spare light weight lithium battery that could be swapped out to get you further if the recharging system fails.
Have the ability to shut off your headlight and maybe a clamp on LED light that can flash so that if your in the day, you have that for safety. Clamp on flashers for bicycles are cheap and light weight.
+1 on volt meter. I have one now on my XS650 after I replaced rotor (Thx JIM), rectifier and put in solid state regulator.

Points: They are light, Bring meter and maybe a timing light. Maybe you could take a timing light apart and make it smaller? With a meter you can static set your timing good enough to run the bike to get to a place to work on it or buy a timing light or have a timing light shipped to you.

I have soo many vehicles in my family corral, that I have AAA w/ Bike tow option.

 

[Team Junk]

Sounds like a epic journey.

The Gonzo will fire a pair of stock coils wired in parallel. As Jim said a DPDT switch will do the trick.

The rotor is no problem. I have one of Jim"s rotors and can tell you he does a fine job of rewinding them.

On the other hand the stock dual pickup on the alternator case is pretty hard to source.

 

[jetmechmarty]

20 something years ago, yam650@Micapeak had a crawfish boil in Louisiana. Harold, returning to Texas had a rotor failure which led to a dead battery. He was able to source a lawn tractor battery, which he strapped to the seat and wired in. He unplugged or deactivated the alternator and lights. The tractor battery got him 200 miles or so to home.

XS650 is truly capable of distance riding.

 

[jetmechmarty]

On the other hand the stock dual pickup on the alternator case is pretty hard to source.

On my last couple of trips, I carried a spare pickup coil and TCI box. To the Townsend, TN rally, I also had a rotor with puller, but not for me. Sure enough, at the rally my spare rotor went on another bike. I saved his weekend. This happened on a very low mileage original bike. My spare was returned with an @Jim rewind.

I also like to carry long combination wrenches. Two of them. Sized 27mm and 22mm. A cheap small Harbor Freight multimeter and a test light also come along.