Electric Vehicles, Hybrids...Battery tech... Land Air and Sea. Let's See 'em.

Is the internal combustion engine doomed to history

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 25.6%

  • No

    Votes: 21 53.8%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • ...er... what was the question again?

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Total voters
    39
From https://www.thedailyupside.com/
EVs
Tesla Wants to Start an EV Price War
First, Elon Musk offered the coveted blue checkmark to the masses, now he’s basically handing out Tesla Model Ys.
The leading electric vehicle company is slashing the price of its baseline SUV to below the average price of a new vehicle. It’s the latest shakeup in the EV race and a signal that Musk is going for downmarket share.
Pricing Grand Prix
The Model Y — a crossover SUV — led all EVs in domestic sales last year, moving some 243,000 units to customers (in second place was Tesla’s Model 3, at roughly 200,000, while Ford’s Mustang Mach-E and the Chevy Bolt came in a distant third and fourth at roughly 39,000 a piece). In what can only be described as an electric U-turn, Tesla is making one of the most dramatic price cuts on a mass-produced vehicle in modern history. The Model Y’s cheapest tier will now retail for $46,990, down from $52,630, some $759 less than the average US price of a car or truck. Just last summer, the Model Y cost nearly $20,000 more than the average automobile.
The price slash coincides with Tesla’s first-quarter earnings report, which revealed that gross profit margins, excluding regulatory credits, had fallen from around 21% in the quarter to below 16%. Musk told investors the company is “pushing for higher volumes and a larger fleet… versus a lower volume and higher margin.”
Analysts aren’t in love with the move — Wedbush Securities analyst Dan Ives wrote in a note last week that “margins are now a delicate issue that are keeping Tesla investors up at night” — though the US price changes appear in line with the company’s global strategy. Now, there’s something of a price war brewing:
• After Tesla lowered prices in Europe, Renault’s CEO last week told reporters that the cuts present “a challenge” and that the company is now “analyzing [its] positioning market by market.”
• Ford CEO Jim Farley, meanwhile, said last week that Tesla’s price reductions are “completely rational,” and added “Price wars are breaking out everywhere. Who’s going to blink for growth?”
It appears the first EV maker to blink was General Motors, which announced during its first-quarter earnings report on Tuesday that it would end production of its mass-market Chevrolet Bolt by the end of the year. GM will pivot its focus to producing electric Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra trucks before sunsetting the Bolt, which was the cheapest EV on the market.
Made in China: Fittingly, sources told Reuters on Monday that Tesla is preparing to sell Model Ys produced in its Shanghai factory to Canadian customers later this year — marking the first time the EV kings will ship cars from China to North America. The Shanghai plant is Tesla’s most cost-efficient. Between cheaper production and less competition, no wonder Elon is moving to make Tesla Model Ys the Ford Focuses of EVs.
- Brian Boyle
 
General Motors is ending the run of its affordable EV to focus on electric truck production beginning next year.
https://apple.news/Ac7WFgbRFQo6Wl-NfyDaUvQ

"GM is killing off the Chevy Bolt and retooling its factory to produce electric trucks," David Zipper tweeted. "In one fell swoop, a step backward for road safety, emissions mitigation, and EV affordability.

So we're canceling the only real affordable EV on the market, huh?” E.W. Niedermeyer tweeted. “And we're retooling the line for electric trucks, huh? Great, fantastic, then let's just dispense with the idea that EVs are more than just a posturing trend for the wealthy.
Released in 2017, the Bolt was the U.S. second best-selling plug-in car for that year after the much more expensive Tesla (TSLA) Model S.

The Bolt was named the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year, the 2017 North American Car of the Year, an Automobile magazine 2017 All Star, and was listed in Time magazine's Best 25 Inventions of 2016.

But the Bolt also had some serious problems. The vehicle was recalled several times due to concerns over the battery pack spontaneously catching fire. “

So instead of trying to fix the problems they just decided to kill the car and with it , the only affordable American made electric vehicle.

Two things strike me here,

One….big E-SUV’s and pickups have huge price tags and horrible range. Especially the trucks , if you try to , you know……actually use them as a work vehicle.

And Two…..I’ve said this before, but China is miles ahead of the rest of the world in EV sales for one reason, they make affordable cars for the masses. Catering only to the wealthy is a sure way to keep electric vehicles a niche market here in the US.
 
Tesla?? :lmao:

How many Teslas have had recalls?


Of the 5,093,690 total cars Tesla has recalled, 81% have been since January 2022. The vast amount (99%) of the cars Tesla has recalled since January 2022 were fixed using a software update that didn't require customers to go to a dealership or replace parts.Feb 17, 2023
 
This is my foray into the electric vehicle market. I bought one for the wife as well. We ride along the Aldinga Beach/Wilunga esplanade three times a week. roughly 1 to 1.5 hour trips. I bought a small trailer just recently so we could take Alice with us.

Unfortunately, she is extremely anxious when leaving the house or us and is being treated for stomach ulcers at the moment so we'vce decided to stop taking her with us for now.

Takes pretty well all day to charge the batteries after three trip intervals. Whilst the electric bikes are fun and save a lot of sweat I won't be bying an electric car, not until they improve battery technology at least: fires, charging time and mileage are the big drawbacks for now.

Our govt is pushing for everyone to take up EV ownership and havejust released their plan to build a heap of EV charging stations around Oz, I'll believe it when its done, Oz is a big place with lots of distance between towns in some parts.

Doesn't make a lot of sense at the moment: drive 300klms then sit around in a diner for 8 hours while the battery charges.
 

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IC engine (and battery) merely a passing fad> https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/

Note that the horse is an internal combustion "device", as are all animals (as in horse burns CHx in the form of oats) similar to a thermal power station, but avoids the large cascade of losses in electrical generation and transmission. Horse makes far less damage to atmosphere, and gives nothing to the rich but, ah, "fertilizer". CO2? Doanworryaboutit> See Milankovitch Cycles (I like the 650's!)

Unlike Li battery, horse gives horsepizz, which is useful in concentrated form for nitrating steel at the forge, or doing chemistry for your musket-powder. And if you're good to the horse, he's happy to see you, and he knows the way home from the bar.

(not entirely tongue in cheek, fellas. The PM article is worth reading, even if it's in PM).)

For the literature fixated> A poetic version of good design> https://grg.org/OneHossShay.htm

Best!
 
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As always... Zack calls 'em as he see's 'em.....


 
Just as a matter of interest. Hybrids are rresponsible for 3,500 fires, ICE vehicle are responsible for 1500 fires, and EVs 52 fires. That's out of 100,000 . So apparently EVs are the safest in relation to fires. However, EV fires are more problematic to extinguish.
Of course these numbers vary a little, depending on where you research, but, try telling that to a dyed in the wool anti EVist. According to them, all EVs will catch fire, burn your house down and they cannot be extinguished.
It's basically the same with anti Chineseists.: All Chinese vehicles are rubbish, will not last past their warranty, are problems just waiting to happen and parts are unobtainable.
Interestingly, all the anti EVists and Chineseists have never owned either.
Had my druthers, I wouldn't buy Chinese, but, that's just not possible these days.
 
toglhot said:
Just as a matter of interest. Hybrids are rresponsible for 3,500 fires, ICE vehicle are responsible for 1500 fires, and EVs 52 fires. That's out of 100,000 . So apparently EVs are the safest in relation to fires. However, EV fires are more problematic to extinguish.
Of course these numbers vary a little, depending on where you research, but, try telling that to a dyed in the wool anti EVist. According to them, all EVs will catch fire, burn your house down and they cannot be extinguished.
It's basically the same with anti Chineseists.: All Chinese vehicles are rubbish, will not last past their warranty, are problems just waiting to happen and parts are unobtainable.
Interestingly, all the anti EVists and Chineseists have never owned either.
Had my druthers, I wouldn't buy Chinese, but, that's just not possible these days.
Click to expand...
It's hard to stay off the propaganda these days. We can easily choose what line of BS we want to be fed.
 
”Tesla exaggerated EV range so much that drivers thought cars were broken.
Inundated with complaints, Tesla created "Diversion Team" to cancel appointments.”

Tesla has consistently exaggerated the driving range of its electric vehicles, reportedly leading car owners to think something was broken when actual driving range was much lower than advertised. When these owners scheduled service appointments to fix the problem, Tesla canceled the appointments because there was no way to improve the actual distance Tesla cars could drive between charges, according to an investigation by Reuters.
In mid-2022, Tesla started routing range complaints to a "Diversion Team" that fielded up to 2,000 cases a week and "was expected to close about 750 cases a week," Reuters reported.


"Tesla years ago began exaggerating its vehicles' potential driving distance—by rigging their range-estimating software," the article published today said. "The company decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers 'rosy' projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts."


Once the battery fell below 50 percent, "the algorithm would show drivers more realistic projections for their remaining driving range." The order to exaggerate car range allegedly came from the top, Reuters wrote:
The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.


"Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged," the person said, adding: "When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good."

Tesla Model 3 driver Alexandre Ponsin "was sometimes getting less than half" of his 2021 vehicle's advertised range of 353 miles, particularly in cold weather, leading him to believe the car had a serious defect, according to Reuters. He booked a service appointment a few months ago but later "received two text messages, telling him that 'remote diagnostics' had determined his battery was fine, and then: 'We would like to cancel your visit.'"


The cancellation was in line with instructions Tesla employees had received "to thwart any customers complaining about poor driving range from bringing their vehicles in for service," according to Reuters. "Last summer, the company quietly created a 'Diversion Team' in Las Vegas to cancel as many range-related appointments as possible."


Diversion Team members reportedly "often closed hundreds of cases a week and staffers were tracked on their average number of diverted appointments per day." Managers reportedly told employees that each canceled appointment saved the company $1,000, while easing pressure on service centers with long waits for service appointments.

https://apple.news/AP34aOSugS_ulnA-ieJ9e5g
 
jetmechmarty said:
Like politicians?
Click to expand...
Kind of. But politicians never tell lies. Of course, they never tell the truth either. They permanently operate in that space between truth and lies - a vast area most of us know little about. Just listen to an indignant politician accused of telling a lie - they have been misquoted, or taken out of context, or they may have failed to qualify their remark fully, or new facts have emerged since they first made the statement. There is always some highly selective perspective that allows them to claim that when they said UP they in fact meant DOWN.
 
Raymond said:
Kind of. But politicians never tell lies. Of course, they never tell the truth either. They permanently operate in that space between truth and lies - a vast area most of us know little about. Just listen to an indignant politician accused of telling a lie - they have been misquoted, or taken out of context, or they may have failed to qualify their remark fully, or new facts have emerged since they first made the statement. There is always some highly selective perspective that allows them to claim that when they said UP they in fact meant DOWN.
Click to expand...
Heads of corporations are very good politicians. Somehow, we go on in spite of them. For how long?
 
It's generally a sad thing but absolutely a sign of the times that - when we're at a point in history when mankind needs to take concerted action on climate change - no matter that this is important - we're still being fed lies, partial truths, distorted facts, contradictory opinions, wishful thinking, glossy misleading images, false projections, dubious statistics, doomsday scenarios and false hopes.

The individual is caught in the crosshairs of historic imperative to do something decisive along with the knowledge that as individuals we can do next to nothing.

Meanwhile, the winged arrow of time speeds unerringly unto the bullseye of human destiny . . .
 
Raymond said:
It's generally a sad thing but absolutely a sign of the times that - when we're at a point in history when mankind needs to take concerted action on climate change - no matter that this is important - we're still being fed lies, partial truths, distorted facts, contradictory opinions, wishful thinking, glossy misleading images, false projections, dubious statistics, doomsday scenarios and false hopes.

The individual is caught in the crosshairs of historic imperative to do something decisive along with the knowledge that as individuals we can do next to nothing.

Meanwhile, the winged arrow of time speeds unerringly unto the bullseye of human destiny . . .
Click to expand...
Truth.
 
Mailman said:
”Tesla exaggerated EV range so much that drivers thought cars were broken.
Inundated with complaints, Tesla created "Diversion Team" to cancel appointments.”

Tesla has consistently exaggerated the driving range of its electric vehicles, reportedly leading car owners to think something was broken when actual driving range was much lower than advertised. When these owners scheduled service appointments to fix the problem, Tesla canceled the appointments because there was no way to improve the actual distance Tesla cars could drive between charges, according to an investigation by Reuters.
In mid-2022, Tesla started routing range complaints to a "Diversion Team" that fielded up to 2,000 cases a week and "was expected to close about 750 cases a week," Reuters reported.


"Tesla years ago began exaggerating its vehicles' potential driving distance—by rigging their range-estimating software," the article published today said. "The company decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers 'rosy' projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts."


Once the battery fell below 50 percent, "the algorithm would show drivers more realistic projections for their remaining driving range." The order to exaggerate car range allegedly came from the top, Reuters wrote:
The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.


"Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged," the person said, adding: "When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good."

Tesla Model 3 driver Alexandre Ponsin "was sometimes getting less than half" of his 2021 vehicle's advertised range of 353 miles, particularly in cold weather, leading him to believe the car had a serious defect, according to Reuters. He booked a service appointment a few months ago but later "received two text messages, telling him that 'remote diagnostics' had determined his battery was fine, and then: 'We would like to cancel your visit.'"


The cancellation was in line with instructions Tesla employees had received "to thwart any customers complaining about poor driving range from bringing their vehicles in for service," according to Reuters. "Last summer, the company quietly created a 'Diversion Team' in Las Vegas to cancel as many range-related appointments as possible."


Diversion Team members reportedly "often closed hundreds of cases a week and staffers were tracked on their average number of diverted appointments per day." Managers reportedly told employees that each canceled appointment saved the company $1,000, while easing pressure on service centers with long waits for service appointments.

https://apple.news/AP34aOSugS_ulnA-ieJ9e5g
Click to expand...
Might b different in the US, but over here that that would b a criminal offence.

But why aren't I surprised. The megalomaniac is caught out lying. 😂
 
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