More engine woes - aluminum shavings...

[Sci85]

Well, I've always like Yammy's but this guy is fighting me every step of the way. I was having some starter overrun issues so I went to remove the clutch cover to perform the starter gear clip bending procedure and found metal shavings in the filters. Mostly in the right side filter. Man, it's never ending with this rebuild!

Anyway, I can't hear any scraping noises when the engine is running, nor do I hear any cam chain slap. Here's a video of when I was diagnosing my high idle issue. The first 15s is the best for hearing for anything. Maybe you guys can take a listen and see if you hear anything that jumps out at you.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOPM22FJyiPGOBgDFFYL8JlU-yW2x9PYOBLXkjs

Can't see any issues with the clutch basket either. I put brand new cam chain guides in but I do see what looks like some black chunks on the filter. But, I just recently had the head apart again and didn't notice anything strange looking on the guides. What do you guys think?

https://goo.gl/photos/SFExvddJXoKfFr926

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Without anything obviously sticking its head up, that's one of those "monitor" situations.

Clean filters, fresh oil, frequent inspections of rightside filter.

I use a paper sleeve to filter out the 'fines'.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/hp-oil-pump-from-mikes.40991/page-3#post-478041

http://www.xs650.com/threads/hp-oil-pump-from-mikes.40991/page-4#post-479825

If its just residual crud, the filter changes get progressively cleaner.

 

[xjwmx]

I notice there's not much in the bottom filter compared to the side. If it makes sense, where are the opportunities to create shavings that would get caught in the side but not the bottom?

 

[Sci85]

Good question. I was wondering the same thing. Or maybe that's just the way the oil flows...

 

[Sci85]

If its just residual crud, the filter changes get progressively cleaner.

Unfortunately, you're looking at the 2nd filter inspection...

 

[5twins]

You might want to open up and inspect your oil pump. Oil is pulled through the bottom sump filter and directly up to the oil pump by the oil pump. From there it is pumped directly to that little side filter. Unless it is past accumulation just now breaking free, the oil pump is the only thing in the path that would or could produce aluminum chips. But, it does take quite a while and multiple oil changes (and filter cleanings) to really flush one of these motors out. Mine took probably 7 or 8K miles and half a dozen or so filter cleanings before they started coming out clean. Let's face it, most of these bikes never received frequent enough oil change and filter services during their lifetimes.

 

[Sci85]

Well this was a new rebuild and cleaned both cases thoroughly so I don't think it would be past accumulation. And both filters looked like that so somethings shedding aluminum pretty quickly. I haven't even ridden her more than a mile. That's all from mainly idling...

 

[kshansen]

I have a question in the picture below of your clutch basket was this damage there before? I just took a look at the clutch out of my 1982 and there is not a mark in that area. That appears to be right in line with the spring bolt holes, did you install some non-stock bolts?

Or maybe got the trust washers wrong or one missing?

 

[5twins]

I'll bet that's it. I didn't notice that before.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

Double ditto. Good eye, kshansen. That would certainly generate aluminium filings. Follow 5twins post on clutch screws:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/clutch-spring-cap-screw-modification.3408/page-3#post-351484

 

[kshansen]

Double ditto. Good eye, kshansen. That would certainly generate aluminium filings. Follow 5twins post on clutch screws:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/clutch-spring-cap-screw-modification.3408/page-3#post-351484

I was just lucky to have a clutch assembly sitting on the bench to look at, was not sure if that was a machining mark or not.
Other than bolt lengths I would be checking thrust bearing.washers very close.

Don't recall off top of my head, what is the oil flow of these engines? If those chips had to go through the pump to get to that side of the small strainer I would also be checking the pump out very close. Actually as the cover is already off pump should be checked and cleaned just to let me sleep better!

 

[Sci85]

Great catch kshansen! I noticed that too at first but didn't think too much about it since I was so focused on thinking it had to be the cam chain guide. I'm going to look for some old pics during the tear down and compare them. And yes, I have two of Mike's replacement bolts. Are they longer than stock?

 

[5twins]

Apparently so, lol.

 

[kshansen]

Great catch kshansen! I noticed that too at first but didn't think too much about it since I was so focused on thinking it had to be the cam chain guide. I'm going to look for some old pics during the tear down and compare them. And yes, I have two of Mike's replacement bolts. Are they longer than stock?

I'd screw them in with out the springs and try sitting the hub in the basket with the thrust bearing parts in place and see it anything rubs. Might have to put a layer of grease in the groove as it is machined away right now.

Or if you have access to a depth mike you could set the hub in place in the basket on the thrust bearing and measure down through the bolt holes to see that distance then compare to the length of the threaded part of the spring bolts.

 

[Sci85]

Well kshansen, that was it. I guess the moral of the story is buyer beware. I wonder if it would have cost Mikes more to make them the correct length? Anyway, hopefully I have diverted a disaster. Now to inspect the pump and clean everything up good and we'll at least have one issue licked. Thanks again guys.