No power to electrical system

F

Flyboy5584

XS650 Enthusiast
Messages
47
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Austin, TX
Hi everyone.

I am a first time user of this forum. Thank you in advance for any help you may provide.

I am in the middle of my first restoration, a 1983 XS650 Heritage Special. The bike has not run in over 5 years. I have found most of the information for projects on the bike so for, however I am now having an electrical problem which I can not find any info on so for. The problem I am experiencing appears to be no power to the bike. I did the radio shack fuse block replacement I found from previous posts. The first time I powered up, I had a neutral light, the left turn signal worked, the right turn signal came on but did not blink and the tail light worked. No headlight in either low or high beam. I attempted one start and lost everything, no neutral light and no turn signals and no blown fuses. The battery is five years old but has never been on a bike. I tested the batt with a volt meter and it read 12 volts without a load. I am charging the battery and even tried a 50 amp momentary charge with the charger to see if I had any power with no results. I am thinking even though the battery has never been used, I took it out of it's original box, it may be too old at this point. I wanted to see if anyone confirmed my suspicion before I bought another one. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I wanted to get all of the info out there.

Jerry
 
Take the battery to a parts store and have them load test it.
Using the 50 amp boost can have a negitive effect on the bikes electrical system. The power surge can damage the TCI.
Charging the battery at over 2 amps can warp the plates. Shorting the cells.
Once you get the battery problem straightened out. You might have power. If so use the kick start to try starting. This saves a bit on the battery.
If not use your volt meter to check for voltage on both sides of each fuse. Those old style fuses can look ok but still be burnt. They often burn down inside of the end caps.
Modern blade style fuses are much better.
Leo
 
When I did the radio shack fuse block replacement I installed all new fuses. After I tried a batt start and lost what little I had and charged the batt, again, I replaced the 20 amp main fuse and nothing, back to what I had prior to doing the radio shack thing. I tested the batt with the volt meter after charging and saw 13 volts both with and without the ign. switch in the on position. I will take the batt to my local autozone for load testing ASAP and will let you know.

XSLeo, I will swap your rain for our heat and drought in a heartbeat.
Jerry
 
Is your kill switch on? Does it work properly? How about the battery cables themselves and the connection's. Is the ground cable to the frame good and clean and tight? All basic stuff here, and the kill switch on these bikes get's fucked up often. Also, the connections in the connector's themselves get pretty shitty .
 
With the kill switch in the off position will I not have lights? Batt cables are good and tight and the connection to the frame is as well. Just checked, it makes no difference now with the kill switch in the off or on position, still nothing. I am currently not worried about starting, just getting all the lights/electrical working properly. I am thinking if I can get the lights working, i can work on ignition later. Since I have owned this project, it is yet to be running, so not sure about the kill switch, working or not.
 
If you have the stock wiring lights won't go on till the engine starts. The should be two red/white wires from your kill switch, check for continuity between those wires, with the switch turned to on.
 
I would try bypassing the ignition switch by unplugging the three prong connector from the switch in the headlight and putting a jumper between the terminals and /or testing for resistance in the switch....There should be no resistance...
A dirty switch caused similar problems for me not long ago..They are fairly easy to to disassemble and clean....
 
You can keep the drought, but you can send some of the heat this way, take all the rain you want.
Lights won't make the bike run, work on the ignition first.
When you get the battery checked out and one back in the bike check for voltage along the red wire through the main fuse and up to the key switch. After the key switch you should have voltage out on the brown wire back to the fuses.
Inside the headlight bucket you will find the connector for the key switch. It will have a red wire a brown wire, a blue wire.
With the key off you should have battery voltage at the red wire, this is power from the battery.
With the key on the brown wire and the blue wire shoukld get battery voltage to. If no or low voltage is there you need to disassemble and clean the key switch. Low voltage is anything .2 volts less than battery voltage.
If all these voltages check out, go back to the fuses. The brown wire comes back and feeds power to the other three fuses. They should all get battery voltage at both ends of the fuses. If you have good voltage on one end and low or no voltage on the other you have a bad connection or fuse.
If all is good, back up to the headlight bucket. Coming down from the right side switchs you will find a connector two red/white wires and a blue white wire.This is the engine stop switch and the start button. With the key on and power flowing past the fuses carefully probe into the harness side of this connector at the red/white wires, you should get battery voltage at one wire with the engine stop switch in the off position. With the switch in the run position you should get battery voltage. If not then the engine stop switch needs didsassembly and cleaning.
Once you get battery voltage through the engine stop switch you need to check for battery voltage at the red/white wire at the coil and the TCI box. The coil is under the tank, the TCI box under the battery box.
By now you should have battery voltage at both places mentioned. If so then you should get spark at the plugs. To check spark pull the right side plug. hook it back into the plug wire. With the key on and the engine stop switch in the run position, hold the plug firmly against the engine with the plug gap facing you. Now using the kick start kick the engine over a few times. The plug should spark.
I think this should get you a bit farther along in your diagnosis of your bike. Do these things and report back with the results.
Leo
 
All good info, thanks very much for your input. The batt was tested at my local Autozone and was good under a load. I painted the frame at the attach point for the negative cable (DA). So I sanded the area and reattached the negative cable to the frame and I now have a Neutral light, left turn signal blinking, right turn signal not blinking but on steady, a tail light and a horn. I tried the start button and it did not do anything (kill switch on or off) I didn't hear a solenoid clicking either. I do not have the gas tank attached or any pedals attached so unable to kick start.

I cleaned the turn signal switch and got the right blinker to blink a couple of times, but it went back to steady. Which I am thinking is in the switch. Not sure about the start button, unless there is some logic in the circuitry not allowing the engine to turn over without gas tank and other pedals not attached.
 
Your turn signals draw to much power to flash well without the engine running.
If you have been painting, did you paint the handle bars? The start circuit gets power off the engine stop switch through the safety relay. This power goes to the start button. the start button grounds to the handle bars.
The handle bars ground through a black wire on the left side bar switch housing back into the harness ground in the headlight bucket.
If you painted the bars this breaks the ground path through the bars. Remove the right side swith housing and clean the paint off the bars so you get contact from the switch housing to the bars.
One way to check this would be to jump from the blue/white wire on the start relay to ground. This should activate the starter. If not then you need to check the red/white wire at the relay for battery voltage.
Leo
 
I have not painted the handle bars, but to be on the safe side I did remove the switch housings (both sides) and steel wooled them to make sure I have good contact. I will be out of pocket for the next few days. As soon as I get back I will do the check from XSLeo on an earlier post and report back.
 
I have traced the voltage as per XSLeo, thanks for the explicit details. The batt volts are at 13 starting out, as I follow your directions, I have 12.5 volts at the fuses, 12 volts thru the key switch and Kill switch. Once I get to the coil, I have 11 volts. I don't have the time at this point to check out the TCI, but will asap. I still do not have the kick start back on the engine nor a gas tank, so unable to go forward. Just getting back with what I have found out so for.
 
Starting with 13 volts at the battery is good. As you go through the steps you are losing a bit much voltage at each step. Voltage much more than .2 or .3 volts indicates more resistance in the circuit than it should be. With 13 volts at the battery 12 to 12.5 at the coil would be better.
At the main fuse it should be the same as battery voltage. Check and clean the connections on both the positive and negitive battery cables, both ends.
On the smaller red wire from the battery positive to the main fuse, any connections along that wire. A plug in jst a short way from the battery and at the fuse. Even a small buit of corrosion can be a problem, bright and shiny is a good thing.
On your fuse box the clips on the fuses are 18 years old. Age weakens the clips. As they weaken the connection between the clip and fuse causes heat build up. Heat weakens the clip more. Corrosion also weakens the clips. After the years of heat and vibration the clips can be weak enough to break if handled roughly.
Some replace the clips with new ones from a fuse holder from Radio Shack. Others replace the fuse box with inline blade style fuse holders. I like this option. The blade fuses are much better than the round glass fuses.
A bit of research and you will find the way to do either option.
At the key and engine stop switch, both can be taken apart and cleaned. Bright and shiny here too.
In the headlight bucket are places where the key switch and engine stop switch plug into the harness. These can be cleaned too.
Most everthing plugs together in the headlight bucket. Headlight, of course, the turn signals, the left and right side controls. Two big bundles of wires come up each side of the frame with all the plugs for all the other things to plug into. It can look rather intimidating. Most everything matches by color. Some colors may be hard to tell apart like dark brown and chocolate. If you unplug some thing mark them with masking tape and numbers.
Some of the plug ins can be cleaned with a good electrical contact cleaner. Some of the larger you might be able to use a bit of fine sand paper as well as the contact cleaner.
On the TCI you cab probe into the harness and TCI sides of the plugs. This might tell you if the plug needs cleaning. If the voltage on the harness side is higher than on the TCI side the plug needs a bit of cleaning. This same thing can be used on most of the plugs.
Leo
 
What I have found so far. When I jump across the starter button wires inside the switch housing the starter activates and turns over the engine. I cleaned the contacts on the starter button assembly and reassembled. This did not work, however jumping the wires still does. I noticed the collar on the button itself is not fully intact and when I disassembled the assembly again the button fell out. I am thinking the problem lies with the starter button. Thoughts? Should I replace the whole switch assembly to be on safe side or just the button and spring?

Thanks,
Jerry
 
Mike's sells buttons. I think he sells a stock type replacement as well as an aluminum button. The aluminum one won't break, but look how long the stock one lasted. Either one is cheaper than a new switch.
I might try just a new button first. You might find one at your nearest Yamaha dealer. It might cost a bit more, but no shipping. Maybe even at a salvage yard, you can get a couple.
Leo
 
Just went to Mike's, he has the stock type button for $6.50, the whole switch is $51.
I have seen the aluminum ones somewhere. Maybe 650central.
Leo
 
Leo,
Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. I too have found both the button and switch on Mikes. I wanted to make sure you Gurus confirmed the diagnosis before I submitted the order. I will add that piece to the order, been waiting for his petcocks to arrive. Mike has been getting a lot of my business lately.
Jerry
 

Similar threads

S
82 xs650 L side blinker issue
Replies
12
Views
292
Wingedwheel
Wingedwheel
O
1980 XS650 Bobber Build - Starts with electric starter, not kickstarter
Replies
9
Views
317
onimoto
O
CaseyH
New project
Replies
2
Views
144
CaseyH
CaseyH
ANXS650
Press Start Button, then Nothing
Replies
3
Views
419
robtattoo
robtattoo
C
Wiring Overhaul
Replies
2
Views
395
jpdevol
jpdevol
Back
Top