Specs for coil in Hugh's Hand Built complete CDI system.

[Signal]

I have been caught out by CDI ignitions, thinking they were not working when I could not see the spark outside on a sunny day. CDI's have a needle fine spark that is difficult to see. This may not be your problem but try turning the lights off in your workshop.
The kill switch usually closes to ground, on some cheap ones the button can sometimes cock over and not open properly when released as well.

 

[grist 75]

I have run mine for a couple hundred miles now and it’s working tiptop. If you’re getting no spark I would think it might be in the kill switch relay.
Is the battery in good condition, and can that be ruled out?

 

[boonacka]

I do have a CDi from Hugh, it is getting spark. it runs great actually. but the stator looks like... the picture below. I am trying to figure out why it's overheating. all the new connections I made look good. I have torn apart the entire wiring loom and found some non-factory connections in the grounds, they are soldered but they look a little crappy and covered in gooey tape. I understand that the readings are reasonable for a coil, but they are not within the original Speck in Hugh's manual
I only ran the bike long enough to dial in the timing and take a short test ride. in the process I thought I may have done some damage to the coil, and possibly the stator.

Just wondering, how does our stator look today? have you run into any issues since you last posted?
i just recently had my hhb cdi stator fry out on me and wondering if it was a fluke or bad grounding.

 

[eazyrider]

Reviving this thread as I just had some concerns about conflicting CDI coil specs myself while in search of another spare coil.

I've found that coil resistance specs will vary depending on who you buy it from - the blue coil that came with my original HHB CDI kit was 3ohms(per the HHB website stating a good working range of 1.5-3.0ohms) while seemingly newer coils are at 0.5-0.7ohms(per the actual install instructions/troubleshooting section that came with the kit, verified on both RM STATOR's website and Yamaha's part number for the factory Banshee coil). Ebay and Amazon Banshee coils will widely vary from ~2.3-4.2ohms so you need to do your due-diligence before just slappin it into your bike.

I've been runnin the kits higher 3ohm coil for a long time now and I haven't had any noticeable issues but I'm interested in using the supposedly factory-correct 0.5ohm CDI coil for better all-around performance(better mileage, easier starts, more power, better reliability, etc etc).

I asked Hugh, who stated the higher 3ohm is fine but he didn't comment on the .5ohm coil, so I'm left wondering what I'm missing out on with the lower resistance coil...

• Would I be hurting anything if I swapped to it(even though it appears that this lower-spec coil is made specifically for this CDI system)?
• Are there any real tangible benefits or should I leave "well-enough" alone?
• Am I falling deeper into the "never-ending quest for more power at the sake of reliability" purgatory?

 

[Its been a long time]

I asked Hugh, who stated the higher 3ohm is fine but he didn't comment on the .5ohm coil, so I'm left wondering what I'm missing out on with the lower resistance coil...

Be careful. A lower resistance coil draws more current (simple ohm's law). That's just fine if the igniter can handle the higher current. I have no way of knowing what your ignition system will tolerate. If the manufacturer isn't interested in telling you, I can't really think of another way to find out.

 

[eazyrider]

Be careful. A lower resistance coil draws more current (simple ohm's law). That's just fine if the igniter can handle the higher current. I have no way of knowing what your ignition system will tolerate. If the manufacturer isn't interested in telling you, I can't really think of another way to find out.

Appreciate the quick response!

This is exactly my main concern. I'd hate to burn this ignition up over a seemingly small swap so I'm hesitant to try it.

 

[arcticXS]

Be careful. A lower resistance coil draws more current (simple ohm's law). That's just fine if the igniter can handle the higher current. I have no way of knowing what your ignition system will tolerate. If the manufacturer isn't interested in telling you, I can't really think of another way to find out.

In actual CDI ignitions, as opposed to battery powered Electronic ignitions (Yamaha TCI, Boyer, Pamco, Dyna, Newtronics, etc), the "black box" dumps a fairly high voltage charge through the primary winding. The energy level of this discharge event is determined by the stator ignition windings and the "black box", so as far as I understand coil primary winding resistance can be quite low, sometimes under 1 ohm. While battery powered ignitions are normally in the 3 to 5 ohm range.

What you really need to be concerned about, is making 100% sure the high voltage pulse from the coil secondary winding/ spark plug cable is connected to ground. If you pull one or both sparkplug caps off, and leave them dangling while kicking the engine over, or run the starter motor, you are very likely to fry either the coil or the "black box). In some cases these are integrated into one part.

 

[eazyrider]

In actual CDI ignitions, as opposed to battery powered Electronic ignitions (Yamaha TCI, Boyer, Pamco, Dyna, Newtronics, etc), the "black box" dumps a fairly high voltage charge through the primary winding. The energy level of this discharge event is determined by the stator ignition windings and the "black box", so as far as I understand coil primary winding resistance can be quite low, sometimes under 1 ohm. While battery powered ignitions are normally in the 3 to 5 ohm range.

What you really need to be concerned about, is making 100% sure the high voltage pulse from the coil secondary winding/ spark plug cable is connected to ground. If you pull one or both sparkplug caps off, and leave them dangling while kicking the engine over, or run the starter motor, you are very likely to fry either the coil or the "black box). In some cases these are integrated into one part.

Good point Arctic.

Since this system is designed as being able to power itself instead of needing an external 12v source(battery) I don't see why both coils wouldn't work in this case. I'm well-aware of what runnin a low resistance coil will do to say, points or a Boyer though, so I'm just concerned with what harm a high-resistance coil vs a low-resistance may do to this expensive ignition(other than a weaker spark). Same with the potential difference of runnin a battery vs just a capacitor.

I've email RMSTATOR themselves so hopefully I get a response and I'll post my definitive findings here for everyone to see, in case this conundrum comes up for anyone else.

 

[eazyrider]

UPDATE: I received no help from RMSTATOR either so I took matters into my own hands and bought a Yamaha Banshee YFZ350 .4ohm coil to test. After waiting all day for the mail to get here I hooked it up along with my voltmeter, made sure to use non-resistor caps with my BPR7ES plugs, said a lil prayer, and gave it a kick - it worked amazingly with a noticeable improvement.

Fired up before my foot was halfway through the stroke and it ran much smoother and stronger than the 3ohm coil the kit came with. I let it idle for a while, just to verify that nothing was gonna short out, overheat, or melt down but everything went well. Final test will be a few good long rides but after all the research I've done on the part numbers, specs, and the fact that this coil is made for this system, I'm sure it'll work just fine.

RMSTATOR Coil Part #: RM06002
Yamaha Banshee Coil Part #: 3LC-82310-01-00

 

[grist 75]

Interesting, I just found this thread again because I’m having a no start issue with my bike. The coil is testing the same as it was before. And now it seems like the timing is off. A spark tester show spark. The bike is showing no sign of life with starting fluid. With it not running, I don’t know how to check the timing.

 

[eazyrider]

Interesting, I just found this thread again because I’m having a no start issue with my bike. The coil is testing the same as it was before. And now it seems like the timing is off. A spark tester show spark. The bike is showing no sign of life with starting fluid. With it not running, I don’t know how to check the timing.

How was the bike acting that made you suspect timing is off? Can you remember the last thing that changed on the bike before it stopped starting?

As for checking timing with HHB CDI:

1. Take your leftside cover off so you can see the timing tab that's bolted to the rotor.
2. Before you adjust anything, verify your cam chain is properly tensioned.
3. Turn your engine over to TDC.
4. At the timing tab(it's the silver tab on the rotor that's held on with 3 lil bolts), you need to measure the distance from the tab's tip to the tip of the lil magnet in the black pickup. It should be ~5/8" or 16mm and this will get you right on the money most times.

 

[grist 75]

The reason I suspected the timing was because I put starting fluid in the intake, give it some cranks, and nothing not even a puff of smoke.
I’m trying to think of the last thing I did before it stopped starting, and I’m coming up blank.
The most recent thing I did was replaced rubber intake boots, the bike started, but the intake boots cracked right away. It backfired and blew off one of the vacuum caps. (the new boots have vacuum tubes). It was hard to start, and the starter began ratcheting again. Could not get it started kicking either ( still seems much harder to kick than ever) and had to bump start it to get home. After repairing the cracks with Black permatex and replacing vacuum caps, I have not gotten it started

 

[grist 75]

Thanks for the static timing tip, I’ll have to check, but I think I’m in that range.

 

[eazyrider]

The reason I suspected the timing was because I put starting fluid in the intake, give it some cranks, and nothing not even a puff of smoke.
I’m trying to think of the last thing I did before it stopped starting, and I’m coming up blank.
The most recent thing I did was replaced rubber intake boots, the bike started, but the intake boots cracked right away. It backfired and blew off one of the vacuum caps. (the new boots have vacuum tubes). It was hard to start, and the starter began ratcheting again. Could not get it started kicking either ( still seems much harder to kick than ever) and had to bump start it to get home. After repairing the cracks with Black permatex and replacing vacuum caps, I have not gotten it started

Are you runnin a capacitor or a battery? If you've got a battery, check to see it passes a loadtest. A tired/old/damaged batt may hold a full charge but will drop the moment any load is put on it and your bike will refuse to start, especially when using the power-hungry starter.

You can also try to hold the throttle open just a hair when you start it, for shits and giggles. You might get lucky and it'll rev back to life with a lil extra air added in. Just make sure to kick completely through because it'll most likely kick back if you don't.

 

[grist 75]

I am running a battery. I went and bought a new battery when I tested it with the starter running. The old battery went from 13 down to 9 V. The new battery dips down to 10 something. The old battery wasn’t that bad but I got a new one just to be sure. I checked the cam chain tension, it was good. I’m in the middle of doing valve adjustment. I am halfway through that and it's not way off. When I’m through with that, I’ll look at the carbs (if it doesn’t start). What has me confused is if it has spark, why didn’t it do anything with starting fluid?

 

[grist 75]

Some new information that might be pertinent. I hit a deer a little more than a year ago, didn’t ride for almost a year, and the bike has been hard to start ever since. (and now won’t start at all)
When I installed the hhb PMA, the timing was way advanced. Hugh suggested I remove the woodruff key, clock it where it needed to be and tighten it back down without the key and a few extra ugga duggas with the impact driver. (I think that is now standard operating procedure with the hhb pma) I am wondering if the crash caused the timing to get out of whack.

 

[Signal]

I had a bit of a problem with a PMA rotor coming loose tried with key and without key no difference.
The fix was to lap the rotor to the crank taper with grinding paste and replace the nut.
I think the old nut threads were stretching and the the rotor would become loose in short order.

 

[jetmechmarty]

I am wondering if the crash caused the timing to get out of whack.

Sudden engine stop? It could be. Needs more whack. Yes, check the timing.

 

[grist 75]

Well, it definitely needs more whack. It used to have it but now it’s all out. Hugh did email me back and he said if you have spark, it’s not your ignition, redo your timing. Which I already did. I removed the rotor, put the engine in top dead center, replaced the rotor 16mm from the pick up magnet. I don’t think the rotor had moved, but I reset it anyway. Still no start. Now what?

 

[jetmechmarty]

Do you have any spark at all?