Steering bearing assistance

[MN_Bobber]

[/IMG]All right guys, I need some assistance. I can't seem to get my steering coumn installed correctly. I changed from the ball bearings to the tapered bearings. The races are seated correctly and completely. The bottom bearing is seated all the way on the steering shaft. When I go to install the steering column into the neck and put the top bearing on, it won't go down all the way. I can't get it tightened up correctly. It seems as if the top bearing is beeing stopped by a collar machined 2 1/4 inches from the top of the shaft.

Here are some measurements I just took:

Chasis neck length - 6 3/4 inches
steering column shaft length - 9 inches
top of shaft to machined colar - 2 1/4

Anyone got any advice? This is starting to wear on me as it should be very simple. I'll try and get some pics up if that will help.

Sean

 

[gggGary]

I'm doing a 750 650 conversion right now so I have all the parts and have been looking at them I still am not sure what is going on with your set up. I did one tapered roller conversion a year a go and it went together fine .

 

[jay760]

Long time since I've changed them, but from memory I think the cups are differant depths, have you got the correct cup on the top and bottom?

 

[gggGary]

Yes to there being two different cup depths, at least on the set of all Balls bearings I have.
Haven't decided which is top and bottom yet (thinking thicker cup to the bottom of the neck). If he has the shallow cup in the bottom of the frame maybe he is hitting the bottom edge of the neck with the lower triple but that should give the opposite problem of what he has.

 

[grizld1]

The top edge of the cup doesn't sit quite flush with the steering head when correctly installed. It looks to me as though the threads on the steering stem are about in the right place. If the bearing sat much lower you'd run out of thread before the nuts could run down far enough to set steering head tension.

 

[gggGary]

Can you shoot a pic of the bottom? off the neck would be fine.

 

[gggGary]

I am wondering if somehow you have 2 short cups instead of one short, one tall cup?

 

[gggGary]

Measured the cups the smaller one is 3/8" 9.5mm the taller one is 7/16" 11mm

 

[pumps]

Is it possible you have either a top or bottom race still in there?
In this picture of my removed old ones (minus the ball bearings) are the two upper and two lower races that I removed in the upper part of the picture. There is a black rubber dust seal and the two new bearings and racing at the bottom of the pic . I guess what I am trying to say is there were two old races that came out on the top AND the bottom so four total. Hope this helps.
.

[/IMG]

 

[bradshaw106]

if i remember correctly their is a sticky about this over a xs garage

 

[XSLeo]

Are you sure it's a 79 frame? I ask because I just measured my 75 and 82 frames, both measure 7 7/16 inches long. I think the older frames , pre 74 have a shorter headstock on the frame.
My extra trees all measure just under nine inches from where the bearing seat to the top of stem.
If he left an extra race in the head it would make the stem too short not too long.

 

[MN_Bobber]

Not sure its a 79 - that is what I was told when I bought it.

SN on neck: S650-119329
on engine: 2F0-115524

I am sure there were no old races left in the neck.

I just measured the races (as best I could) and here are the results:
top: 14/32
bottom: 12/32

I was the bearing sits now (which is pressed on top just sitting there) I run out of thread when installing the bottom nut. Meaning it doesn't go all the way down.

Here is another pic:

 

[inxs]

- with that frame # its an XS2 frame '72 model 306

- look like this
View attachment 37

- motor is probably an XS-SE '78

 

[pumps]

- with that frame # its an XS2 frame '72 model 306

- look like this
View attachment 37

- motor is probably an XS-SE '78

Well that might be a fly in the ointment. But on mikes site its listing the steering head bearings as fitting from 1970-84 XS/TX 650's

 

[MN_Bobber]

Good to know. Ok so maybe I might have the wrong front end to go with this frame?

Is there a difference in fronts between the 72 and a later model, say 80 or 81? Are there different bearings?

 

[gggGary]

you might get by with using an old race as a spacer under the bottom cup. Or machine the shaft to the proper diameter a little further down it's length. Then you might need an extra washer above the hat cap so you don't run out of thread. I came up with that neck height difference when I measured out in the shed too.
Yes the fronts are different.

 

[XSLeo]

The later models have a longer head stock, 7 7/16 inch. yours is 6 3/4 inch. 1 1/16 inch shorter. You need a very long spacer.
I might go to a machine shop and get a spacer made 1 inch long that fits in where the top race goes and the top race fits down into it.
Maybe two spacers 1/2 inch on top and 1/2 on bottom.
Made to a snug press fit like the races, then weld them in place.
The later 35 mm forks will handle better and have better brakes.
Or get the stem turned down 1 1/8 farther down, thread it 1 1/8 inch farther down, cut off extra, thread the center down deep enough to thread in the cap nut.
Get a 72 lower tree, swap the stems.
Get a whole 72 front end.
I think the best option might be swapping a 72 stem into your later lower tree. Not near as much machine work.
To swap the stems, you grind out the weld, press out the stems, press the 72 into the later tree, reweld.

 

[gggGary]

Hey let me look, I just took out an XS750 stem and welded in a late 650 stem the 750 is shorter.......

 

[gggGary]

Yes I have the 750 stem in good shape it is 3/4 shorter than the late model 650 stem otherwise identical, yours for the cost of mailing it to you. Having just removed two stems it is a pretty good bit of work, I think they chamfered the stem and the lower tree so the weld has deep penetration. If you do it; Grind away the weld. Get a length of 1 1/2" iron pipe with a threaded coupling on the top, slip the stem inside it. I used a 1/2 bolt as the drift and beat it through the lower triple. Once the remaining weld let go it was easy. I tapped in the other stem, turned up the mig and laid a new bead.
Otherwise you might look for a complete 750 front end and go double disk.

 

[inxs]

- you have an early frame, for 34mm forks, and a later 35mm triple tree - early stem is threaded all the way, the later not...here you can see the difference

- you may be able to swap the stems, however the early stem is heavily supported from beneath
- perhaps a simpler solution is to make a spacer for the bottom race to bring the upper shoulder low enough to seat the bearing
- or you could turn the shoulder on the stem down enough to seat the bearing
- if you do this you may still have to space or shim the top in order to tighten down the bolt