Build Thread...Special to Cafe Bike

Yup - the red '76C is staying as she was built (that's Lucille) while the cafe build is based on a black 1981 Special (I think it's actually a Heritage Special with the zillion spoke wheels).

I'm a 3-bike guy now (2007 Honda ST1300 plus the two XS650s) plus my Miata (but no goofy looking red boots or fake house in the Hamptons....), so with that many toys, I now owe my wife BIG.
 
Yup - the red '76C is staying as she was built (that's Lucille) while the cafe build is based on a black 1981 Special (I think it's actually a Heritage Special with the zillion spoke wheels).
I'm a 3-bike guy now (2007 Honda ST1300 plus the two XS650s) plus my Miata (but no goofy looking red boots or fake house in the Hamptons....), so with that many toys, I now owe my wife BIG.

Hi Pete,
silly me, I thought it was Lucille you were planning to make over. Better you café the 81 instead, for sure.
Me, I hate the look of those magaspoke wheels. The café look is better served by the mid-'70s deep groove aluminum rim wheels.
They swap right in, the rear drum is identical and the late model disks fit up perfectly on the front.
I put a set on my Heritage one time, and the 18" rear improves the way the bike corners too.
My toys are limited to whatever bikes, tools & etc that'll fit in my half of the garage.
If there ain't room for the family vehicle in there I get to go outside to start, unplug, defrost and brush the snow off it in the morning.
BTW in medieval times you had to be the Shah of Persia to wear red boots and that house in the Hamptons is real enough although it's ownership is another question.
And yes, if the missus ain't happy, nobody's happy. And you best have planned something nice for Valentine's day, eh?
 
Yup, and you too....in fact, all of us need to be aware of Tuesday Feb. 14 - next Tuesday.

Pete
 
About the XS1100 rotors. Do you have someone there who can resurface them? I recently did a favor for a friend. He had me drop off some brake rotors for cryogenic treatment. I picked them up for him too. I observed the rotors on his car 15K miles later. They don't look like a brake pad has touched them! They look like they just came out of the box. $40 ea is what they charged. They're on a high performance car.
I put cryo treated rotors on my car this week.
 
Thanks to Pete for re-activating me on this forum. I look forward to watching you cross the finish line on this build.
Can I ask the indulgence of the folks here in helping me identify the origin of this little fairing?
I trimmed the upper and lower wings a few inches and cut the windshield into it's current shape and had it painted. Any help would be super appreciated.
211.JPG
 
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I've got a neat little bikini fairing like that one. I it bought at a swap meet of my vintage MC club for $10 (really!). The only thing is that it has a square or rather rectangular headlight hole....otherwise, it is in brand new condition (it's never been mounted on a bike, as far as I know).
 
Hi all: one of my forum friends was asking about the starter relay and so I typed up a little tutorial as a PM for these mysterious devices. I'm going to stick it here as well in case anyone else would like to know what a relay is and how they work.

To you electrical wizards out there - if I muff this, please jump in and correct me.

img_0243-jpg.96255


Here's a not very good photo of the starter relay in place on Lucille. It's the thingy hidden by lots of wires just above the silvery box inside of which is the starter safety relay (SSR) that prevents the engine from cranking if you happen to hit the starter button after it is running. As I recall it, you have to access one of the mounting screws for the starter relay through the oval hole where the battery positive cable passes. You'll need a big JIS screwdriver for that.

Just in case you're not aware of what the starter relay is for and how it works - here is a little tutorial. BTW - some people refer to starter relays as solenoids - but that is not correct.

Starter motors on bikes and cars requires a very large electrical current - like 50-300 amps or even more - depending on the engine. Such large currents require very big wires and if that current had to go directly from the battery to the handlebar starter button and back to the starter - those big wires would be all over the bike. Also, the switch itself would have to be huge to handle those current levels.

Sooo...those wacky engineers use the handlebar button to control a relay (aka starter switch). The relay contains an little iron plug which is magnetic and Is connected to the battery by the large diameter positive wire. This plug is usually called an armature and it is surrounded by a coil of electrical wire through which it can move a short distance.

When you push the starter button, power goes through the coil (which only requires a small current as controlled by the handlebar button switch) and this creates a magnetic field inside the coil - and that field causes the armature to rapidly move through the coil (a distance of maybe 1/8" or about 2-3 mm). When the armature reaches the end of its travel it hits an electrical contact which is connected to the starter motor by another big wire - and that completes the circuit and power flows to the starter which cranks the engine.

That's why most relays - no matter what they control - have four connector terminals:
- 2 smaller ones connected to the coil for the control circuit - this is referred to as the primary circuit or primary side;
- 2 larger terminals for the battery-armature and armature starter motor circuit and this called the secondary side.

Some relays have five terminals - one of which is a ground, but I don't think these are used on motorcycles.

Anyhow, all of this relay stuff is to prevent having huge wires running up to the handlebar switch and back down to the starter motor. Horns are another device which require large electrical current and so they often use relays too.

When people talk about "jumping" or bypassing the starter relay, they are simply connecting the two big terminals on the outside of the relay which allows current to flow without requiring the armature to move. If you ever do that - you'll need to use a fairly hefty size piece of wire - like the size of one of the battery cables - because that wire will be conducting the entire starter current to the starter motor to crank the engine.

Starter relays sometimes malfunction and usually it is because a wire in the primary coil is broken or the armature is stuck or for some other reason (corrosion) it cannot make that final contact to connect the battery to the starter motor. When you hit the button and your battery is weak, you often hear just a "click" and that is the armature moving to complete the high current secondary circuit - but there isn't enough power available to operate the high current draw starter motor - so no cranking occurs.

Here endeth the lesson.

Today is clean-up day in the Disaster Central Workshop and I'll be assembling my snazzy new combo service cart-tool box that I bought this week on sale at Canadian Tire (sort of a Canadian combo-version of Ace Hardware and Pep Boys). It's a neat little unit and it should help bring law and order to the shop. I'll post a photo when it's done.

Cheers and have a great day!

Pete

Edited to incorporate the correction provided by RetiredGentleman (with my thanks).
 
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Two things, Pete:

Solenoids are a type of relay, not just another name for them. Five terminal relays are likely SPDT (single pole, dual throw). Unlike the more common 4 terminal SPST relays that either 'make or break' one circuit, a SPDTs can choose between two circuits. Amazingly impressive things can be done with these very simple devices.

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp
 
Yes, a 5 terminal relay has many uses. I'll be using one to connect my neutral light switch (switched ground) to my LED neutral light that shares it's ground with all of the other indicator lights on an aftermarket speedometer. Don't ask me how, I have no quick answer, but this works when I hurt my brain concentrating on the problem.

Scott
 
Hi Pete,
thanks for the explanation, especially about Lenz's Law.
I'd always supposed that Lenz's Law explained why a headlight showed less and less as one grew older.
 
Scott,

I'm using a bunch of SPDTs for my build, but having spent many hours with smoke coming out my ears I've been able to simplify some of my ideas.

I'm curious as to why you'll need to add a relay at all to that circuit. Won't the neutral switch itself control the LED indicator? That's how mine is, I just replaced the stock incandescent bulb for an LED.

As an example, one of the things I'm using a SPDT for is to make the stock 1156 signals dual-purpose, running and turn. The turn signal switch will control that relay (one each per side). With no blinkers on, the relays will be in their resting states; receiving brown-wire power on the NC (normally closed) terminal. Flipping a turn signal on so the respective relay's coil becomes energized, that side switches to the NO (normally open) terminal. Now, instead of receiving solid power straight from the brown wire, it will see flashing power via a Br/W from the flasher.

One load, one earth, two choices at the relay of power sources. One may also use a SPDT to provide two choices of load circuits to be fed from one source. Ie., the relay can be a splitting or merging train track. The relay is the track switching mechanism.

Edit for a confusing mistype.
 
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Scott,

I'm using a bunch of SPDTs for my build, but having spent many hours with smoke coming out my ears I've been able to simplify some of my ideas.

I'm curious as to why you'll need to add a relay at all to that circuit. Won't the neutral switch itself control the LED indicator? That's how mine is, I just replaced the stock incandescent bulb for an LED.

As an example, one of the things I'm using a SPDT for is to make the stock 1156 signals dual-purpose, running and turn. The turn signal switch will control that relay (one each per side). With no blinkers on, the relays will be in their resting states; receiving brown-wire power on the NC (normally closed) terminal. Flipping a turn signal on so the respective relay's coil becomes energized, that side switches to the NO (normally open) terminal. Now, instead of receiving solid power straight from the brown wire, it will see flashing power via a Br/W from the flasher.

One load, one earth, two choices at the relay of power sources. One may also use a SPDT to provide two choices of load circuits to be fed from one source. Ie., the relay can be a splitting or merging train track. The relay is the track switching mechanism.

Edit for a confusing mistype.

Not sure, but there are four or five idiot lights in the speedometer, every one of those lights uses one common ground. If I connect the neutral switch to that ground it will cause the other lights to only be grounded when the bike is in neutral, then they'd all be "neutral lights", I only need one. Using a relay with the neutral switch to switch the + power of that light will let me use that light the way that the speedo is wired now. These Yamaha quirks are all new to me and it really could cause me to make some serious mistakes, just barely caught myself from connecting a regulator wrong because of the Honda/Yamaha green/black ground differences.

Scott
 
I've been trying to justify the purchase of another tool box, I think I'm almost there. A machinist chest would be nice too. I could make some sawdust if it wouldn't be all over my projects in progress.

Scott
 
Thanks for the additional notes on relays guys - I learned something there!

...and here is the talk on threaded fasteners that I gave at the local chapter meeting of the Can. Vintage Motorcycle Group on Thursday evening.

Hope it help people with some queries. The key takeaways from the talk are these:
  • different thread systems or forms (metric, SAE, British Cycle, Whitworth, fine/coarse etc.) cannot be mixed (seems obvious - but people do try odd stuff...);
  • not every fastener that fits is correct - because fasteners vary widely in strength.
The typical hardware store fasteners that you buy in bulk in a cellophane package are lower grade (and therefore MUCH lower strength) than anything on our bikes - DO NOT USE El-Cheapo fasteners on motor vehicles. For example - that nice little tool box-cart thingy I built this morning came with decent looking M8 metric hex head bolts plus some handy carriage bolts and matching nuts. They are marked as Grade 4.8, so if you refer to slide 19 on the attached presentation, you will find that they have a yield strength of around 340 MPa. That is the point at which they will permanently deform. However, there are higher grade bolts available which are MUCH stronger: Grade 9.8 - 720 MPa; Grade 10.9 - 940 MPa; and Grade 12.9 - 1100 MPa.

Don't worry about the units - just recognise that you want the stronger bolts holding your wheels, engine and suspension together - and you usually will not find them in the housewares section of Fred's Grocery Store, 7-11, Sainsburys or the Piggly Wiggly.
  • when you are torquing a fastener - make sure it is clean and lubricated so that all the torque you set on your torque wrench (you DO use one of those don't you??) gets to the fastener threads and isn't wasted overcoming friction on the threads or under the head of the bolt or nut. The will also help ensure that the torque is consistent over all of the fasteners in a pattern on say, a cylinder head or brake disc-wheel hub joint;
  • be sure to follow the specified procedures for torquing critical assemblies like cylinder heads, suspension assemblies and so on. The people who worked out those instructions were engineers and they worked hard to get it right.
Anyhow - please fire any questions to me and I'll see if I can answer them.

Back out to the shop to continue the clean-up operation <oh GAWD!!!>. :banghead:

Cheers,

Pete

EDIT: I just checked the post to ensure that the deck is really attached and I found an error on slide 29. DAMMIT!!!! :cussing:
 

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