Mikes keihin carb kit

[dimka pdx]

Ok...so I was able to source a Mikuni throttle cable from 650 Central...Mike "thinks" it should work on these carbs. Now, the only question remains is:

--> Where can I get a stiffer slide (return) spring?

I sent Keihin an email, but haven't heard back yet.

 

[dimka pdx]

So I took the carbs apart, to check to see the casting on the inside of the carb body where the slides go, and the slides themselves. The casting is so-so...nothing a little sanding can't get rid of. You can definitely tell that one of the slides catches a bit.

However, in doing this, I noticed that the slides don't match. Take a look at below pictures, especially the head (?) and notice one is bigger than the other. Even with the idle screw all the way out, the slider with the bigger head doesn't fully seat.

Before I fire MikesXS another email, I want to make sure this isn't intentional. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. Would love to hear from the carb experts on here.

 

[gggGary]

I really do appreciate this thread and what you guys are going through trying to make these damn things work.

Hard to get QC when the operator is an illiterate 13 year old chained to a milling machine that was also built by the hu flung dung cooperative group. (Our motto: Cooperate or starve)
Sorry but you guys are gluttons for punishment. I'll stick with the 40 year old BS38s made in real factories by trained workers thank you very much. Or real brand name replacements. Carburetor tolerances are just too fussy for 3rd world QC.

 

[mrriggs]

Yeah, when I bought these, Mike L was advertising them as genuine Keihins. He even had a shill post on the message boards about how great they were. Had I known that these were Taiwanese knockoffs I never would have wasted my money.

dimka pdx, the best advice I can offer you is to throw the whole lot away and run something else. I've already spent over $600 trying to make these work. Every solution I tried to cure the sticking slides has been temporary. Lapping the slides helped for a while but just last week the slides started sticking again. Sticky slides are annoying but more importantly, THEY ARE DANGEROUS! Get out now, it's not too late.

 

[5twins]

Wonder who Mike's screwing now, lol. I'll bet he sells used cars or something, lol.

 

[grizld1]

Take a look at the cutaways in that pic-- the cutaway appears to be lower (richer) on the slide shown at left. If I'm seeing that right, it ain't gonna work.

I warned about those carbs at 650 Garage and was called know-nothing and a liar for my trouble. Now I'll step in it again. Stay away from those genuine Keihin PWK33's. As mrriggs has noted, alternative NJ's are not available for PWK's. Swapping needles only goes so far in getting the mixture lean enough for the cruising range on a 4-stroke. That's why the XS Performance and (on Brit bikes) JRC Engineering knockoffs used punched-out 28's. Those PWK33 kits are gonna burn fuel like a Hummer unless custom NJ's were fabricated. You've been told.

 

[pamcopete]

dimka pdx,

When did you buy these carbs?

 

[gggGary]

To the question at hand; the bottom side of those stops is all that really matters the tall one would only keep the slide from opening all the way. That's why the one has been machined it must have been too far down as well as too tall. If it doesn't drop all the way I think you may need to look elsewhere for it not closing.

 

[mrriggs]

Take a look at the cutaways in that pic-- the cutaway appears to be lower (richer) on the slide shown at left. If I'm seeing that right, it ain't gonna work.

I warned about those carbs at 650 Garage and was called know-nothing and a liar for my trouble. Now I'll step in it again. Stay away from those genuine Keihin PWK33's. As mrriggs has noted, alternative NJ's are not available for PWK's. Swapping needles only goes so far in getting the mixture lean enough for the cruising range on a 4-stroke. That's why the XS Performance and (on Brit bikes) JRC Engineering knockoffs used punched-out 28's. Those PWK33 kits are gonna burn fuel like a Hummer unless custom NJ's were fabricated. You've been told.

That one on the right does appear to have a larger cutaway. I'm currently running the thickest (leanest) needle and it is still too rich off idle. A larger cutaway would be the only way to lean it further. Both of my slides look like the one on the left, so it looks like you at least have the potential to get one cylinder dialed in correctly.

 

[dimka pdx]

Yeah, when I bought these, Mike L was advertising them as genuine Keihins. He even had a shill post on the message boards about how great they were. Had I known that these were Taiwanese knockoffs I never would have wasted my money.

dimka pdx, the best advice I can offer you is to throw the whole lot away and run something else. I've already spent over $600 trying to make these work. Every solution I tried to cure the sticking slides has been temporary. Lapping the slides helped for a while but just last week the slides started sticking again. Sticky slides are annoying but more importantly, THEY ARE DANGEROUS! Get out now, it's not too late.

Mrrigs,

Yeah...I am sadly coming to this realization. Because this is a second bike (read as will be ridden a handful of times per year...maybe ever), I am really hesitant to dump any more money into buying new carbs.

Knowing everything you know now, would you run these "performance" carbs from MikesXS, or rebuild the BS34? This is the decision I am facing. I know that the BS34's are not ideal carbs, but they seemed to have worked for a long time.

Also, has anyone had experience with the following carbs --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/xs650-carburetor-kit-34mm-mikuni-YAMAHA-/120875416795?hash=item1c24bc7cdb&item=120875416795&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr?

 

[dimka pdx]

dimka pdx,

When did you buy these carbs?

Pamcopete,

I purchased them last July (when I was stock piling parts for the build). For what it is worth, MikesXS is sending me two replacement slides.

You seem to be a very well respected member of the XS650 community...I would love to hear what you think about the carbs I posted in the above ebay link. If it were you, would you buy these Mikunis or rebuild the BS34s?

 

[pamcopete]

Mike LaLonde bought 500 carbs that were marked Keihin and sold all of them before he sold the business, MikesXS, back in February of 2011. I have two of these carbs installed in my XS650/H and I am very happy with them. I did install the leaner main jet and installed MikesXS Commando mufflers as was recommended and that made the carbs even better.

If you bought a carb from MikesXS since then, then it has nothing to do with Mike LaLonde or the carbs that I have so I cannot comment.

I can only imagine that someone who spends $600 to prove that a product is deficient must have been paid to do so.

grizld1....you are now posting useful information on carbs, which is your unquestioned specialty. We can all benefit from your experience. However, the carbs in question are not the same as those from a year ago.

 

[mrriggs]

Mrrigs,

Yeah...I am sadly coming to this realization. Because this is a second bike (read as will be ridden a handful of times per year...maybe ever), I am really hesitant to dump any more money into buying new carbs.

Knowing everything you know now, would you run these "performance" carbs from MikesXS, or rebuild the BS34? This is the decision I am facing. I know that the BS34's are not ideal carbs, but they seemed to have worked for a long time.

Also, has anyone had experience with the following carbs --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/xs650-carburetor-kit-34mm-mikuni-YAMAHA-/120875416795?hash=item1c24bc7cdb&item=120875416795&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr?

If you don't want to spend any more money then put the BS34s back on.

If you want performance carbs then call Michael Morse at 650Central. In the long run, you will save money, time and frustration.

 

[mrriggs]

I can only imagine that someone who spends $600 to prove that a product is deficient must have been paid to do so.

Huh?

However, the carbs in question are not the same as those from a year ago.

The only difference is they are [truthfully] marketed as Taiwanese and not genuine Keihin.

 

[pamcopete]

The only difference is they are [truthfully] marketed as Taiwanese and not genuine Keihin.

How do you know that they are the same except for the name?

 

[mrriggs]

How do you know that they are the same except for the name?

Because people who buy the Taiwan carbs are having the exact same issues as the guys who bought the "Keihins". You even admitted that your slides were sticking.

From the XS650 Garage;

So, it's just a part of these carbs, not a quality issue. I got used to the sticking slides on my '81/H and learned to manage it by slowing down using the brakes with the clutch still engaged to reduce the RPMs and vacuum of the carbs. Below a certain RPM, the slides come loose.

The argument that it's just the vacuum causing it is BS. When I disassembled my carbs and moved the slide by hand, I could distinctly feel where the slide was sticking. This was on the workbench with no vacuum present. After lapping my slides they worked perfectly for almost a year (with the stock springs). This is under full operating conditions, much vacuum present.

I realize you got these carbs from your buddy and continue to run them out of some sense of loyalty. But, to advise other people to just get used to it is foolish and irresponsible.

 

[grizld1]

Since you've addressed me directly on this, Pete, I'll return the favor. You dismissed my comments on the bored-out 28 knockoffs , since validated by many buyers, as being motivated by sheer malice. Now you're implying that mrriggs' work was not, as he represented, motivated by a desire to make his purchase work and avoid loss of the money he'd spent, but that he was paid by some unnamed party to hunt for trouble. You could give Rush Limbaugh lessons in dirtbag rhetorical tricks.

Now--the PWK is not an appropriate carburetor for 4-stroke use, and knockoff PWK's are not appropriate carburetors for use on anything, no matter who knocks them off.

 

[RFLIVES]

Here's my dealings with mikes regarding these carbs

Good evening,
I'm am writing concerning a couple parts I have purchased for my current restoration of my xs650. To date I have spent over $2500.00 with your company during the very slow rebuild of my bike. I'm now at the point where I am going the final tune and assembly. It's been a long road and I am running in to two speed bumps. First the 3mm internal hex on the performance rockers I purchased are very soft and stripping to the point where I can not tighten down the tappets and keep good clearance I'm using good snap-on allen keys not junk. This resulted in one of the lock nuts coming off the adjusted luckily it just landed in the oil galley and I fished it out. No engine carnage no foul. I need a replacement set of adjusters would a set of non elephant foot one's be a better idea?


2 ea. Rubber Grommet with Metal Bushing $6.00
1 ea. XS Performance Rocker Arm Set $110.00
1 ea. Caliper Mount Bolts - (Pk/2) 77-84 $4.50
1 ea. Lower Head Pipe Flange Bolt (Pk/2) $2.00
$122.50Sub-Total:
$10.53 United Parcel Service (3.79lbs) (Ground):
$133.03Total:
Status History & Comments

Date Order Status Comments
07/12/2011 Processing

Timestamp:
Amount: 133.03 USD
Second issue is my " Keihin carb kit" I purchased these believing I was buying genuine Keihin carbs. I have had not thing but issues in the last two weeks trying to get these carbs right. First I was sent two right side carb holders. You took care of that issue by sending be a new holder. Second I could not get the slides to return correctly using the cable provided I had a custom cable made my flanders and that issue is now taken care of the slides snap back just like they should. Now after getting all of that sorted and putting gas in them the floats stick like crazy I have had the bowls off and on a couple of times and nudged the overflow tube over as it was rubbing the float sides. they still over flow at random. They are also set at 19mm like they should be. I believe the fuel shut off seat is not machined correctly and is letting fuel by leaking on to my garage floor and in to my freshly rebuilt engine washing the rings. I would like to do any of the following

a. return the carb kit and get a refund so I could by a set of vm34's
b.return the carbs and receive Genuine Keihin carbs that you are now selling

Thank you for taking the time to read all of this I know it is rambling. attached is the copy of my receipt for my " Keihin" carb kit if you would like to speak with me My phone number is

Order Information - Order #

Qty. Products Total
4 ea. Brass Cylinder Head Washer $6.00
1 ea. Rivet Link-Tsubaki BF05T Cam Chain $4.00
2 ea. Clutch Pushrod Oil Seal $9.00
1 ea. Piston Rings "Standard" size 447 type $29.00
1 ea. Oil tube Base Fitting $9.00
1 ea. Aluminum Rocker Shaft Plug $15.00
1 ea. Dowel Pin-(pk/2) Cylinder base and top $3.00
1 ea. Gas Shock Set,black springs 12.6" $189.00
1 ea. Chrome Cap for Clutch Adjuster $8.00
1 ea. Oil Filter Screen (in RH engine side cvr) $8.00
1 ea. Athena Premium Overhaul Gasket Set $52.00
1 ea. Top End Copper sealing Washer Kit-9pc $6.00
1 ea. Bottom End Copper Washer Kit - 13pc. $7.00
1 ea. Fork Seal Set (2) 77-84 XS650's $10.00
1 ea. Washer - Fork Seal 77-84 35mm. (Pk2) $4.00
1 ea. Clip - Fork Seal 77-84 35mm. (Pk2) $4.00
1 ea. Damper Valve (Pr) - Front Forks 77-84 $49.00
1 ea. 35mm. Fork Tubes - (Set/2) for 77-84 $129.00
1 ea. 77-84 Fork Tube Caps O-Rings - Pk/2 $2.00
1 ea. Swing Arm Grease Seal - (Set/2) $14.00
1 ea. Steering Head Tapered Bearing Kit $39.00
1 ea. Cam Chain Breaker/Riveter Kit in Case $44.00
1 ea. Haynes Service Manual $19.00
1 ea. Fork Oil Level Gauge $15.00
1 ea. Side Stand Kit - Fits: 1977-84 $36.00
1 ea. XS Performance Keihin Carb Kit $299.00
1 ea. Exhaust Crown Nut & Lock Washer Set $6.00
1 ea. Oil Tube Banjo Bolt (Top) - Pk/2 $8.00
1 ea. Tach Drive Block-off Cap $5.00
1 ea. Cam Chain - Tsubaki BF05t x 102 $39.00
$1,067.00Sub-Total:
$0.00 United Parcel Service (Free Shipping (Order over $150)):
$1,067.00Total:

Mikes XS
Feb 2

to me
Sorry you had that problem. let me get an answer for you.
From:
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:32 PM
To: Mikes XS
Subject: Performance rocker set and pwk carb kit


Mikes XS
Feb 3

to me
Reply: Performance rocker set and carb kit.

James, Sorry this is normally not a problem, you could try the other rocker adjusters, they may be harder. Please send the stripped adjuster back so we can determine if there is a problem with the adjuster. The carbs are not Keihin carbs. They are XS Performance carbs. Please return them and I'll send you a new kit.



Feb 3

to Mikes
Can I purchase a new set of adjusters in the meantime. and you can credit me if they are deemed defective? I need to replace them one at a time so I don't have to pull the motor and rocker boxes. Being the elephant foot style I can't just unscrew them from the top. Could you send me a Paypal payment request to Jd.jamesbailey@gmail.com

As for the carbs they were sold to me as Keihin carbs. They have "Keihin" cast into the side of them. I know you are no longer marketing them as such but I feel mislead and want real Japaneses Carbs on my bike. I am not interested in playing with another set I have already invested time and more money in trying to get them working properly before contacting you. I work 70 + hours a week and with a family I only get 2 hours a week of "me" time to work on my bike. So if I could get those adjusters coming I would really appreciate it. I am more then willing to pay for them until the old one's are inspected. Please let me know what you can do on the carbs. At this point I would just like to return them.

Thank you for your quick response.


Mikes XS
Feb 5

to me
Hi JD, I have a new set of adjusters headed your way. We bought Mike's XS assets in February of last year and and after we took over we never sold any carbs with the Keihin logo on them or marketed them as Keihin. We did not feel it was ethical to sell something that was not what it was supposed to be. Thanks
From:
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 11:26 AM
To: Mikes XS
Subject: Re: Performance rocker set and pwk carb kit



Feb 6

to Mikes
Thanks for getting the tappets out I sent the carbs out on sat you should see them today. Let me know what your decision is on those. JD



Feb 7

to Mikes
I see you received the carbs back on monday. Thank you for getting the adjusters out so quick. I would also be willing to just receive store credit as I have another 650 project to start on.


Mikes XS
Feb 8

to me
HI James. Let me know how those adjusters work. The best I can offer you is to replace the carbs with our XS Performance carbs, which have been improved since the first production run. I'm doing this to help you even though you bought them from the old owner in late 2010. Let me know. Thanks
From:
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:44 PM
To: Mikes XS



Feb 8

to Mikes
I'll let you know how they do. It may be a couple weeks as I have to pull the motor and take off the rocker box to replace them. I thought I could do them one at a time however the cylinder studs prevent me from taking the rockers out. And being the elephant foot design you can't just back them out like stock ones.
Regarding the carbs I guess I'm hosed I now understand your position on these as well. I guess just send me the new ones if you can't do store credit. What are the improvments that have been made?


Mikes XS
Feb 9

to me
Mainly in the cable adjuster and some minor things we do to them when they arrive.
From:
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:17 AM
To: Mikes XS
Subject: Fwd: Performance rocker set and pwk carb kit




So in short I was sold fake carbs and here's some replacment fake carbs that now have a new cable adjuster and the Keihin logo is milled off and xs performance is engraved on them

 

[pamcopete]

Since you've addressed me directly on this, Pete, I'll return the favor. You dismissed my comments on the bored-out 28 knockoffs , since validated by many buyers, as being motivated by sheer malice. Now you're implying that mrriggs' work was not, as he represented, motivated by a desire to make his purchase work and avoid loss of the money he'd spent, but that he was paid by some unnamed party to hunt for trouble. You could give Rush Limbaugh lessons in dirtbag rhetorical tricks.

Now--the PWK is not an appropriate carburetor for 4-stroke use, and knockoff PWK's are not appropriate carburetors for use on anything, no matter who knocks them off.

Wait, wait...mrriggs paid $300 for the carbs. He then spends $600 to make his purchase work? I don't think so. He should have just returned them. He also doesn't mention that most of his problems had to do with his home made mufflers when it was clearly stated from Mike that you needed mufflers with better flow like the Commandos that were used in the Dyno development of the carbs.

I really tried to keep it impersonal, grizld1, and even offered a compliment on your fine work with XS650 carbs, but I see that you have not taken your meds recently and are back to your irrational personal attacks.....too bad...you have a lot to offer.

 

[pamcopete]

After lapping my slides they worked perfectly for almost a year (with the stock springs). This is under full operating conditions, much vacuum present.

OK. I guess I dont get it. If this procedure makes the carbs work perfectly, then why not just pass this on and get off the soap box? Why not get back to me and others and share this information?