1980 XS650 - what seats will fit?

[Wharfcreek]

Sorry for the vague nature of the title, but perhaps after I explain the question further the title will make some sense.

I just purchased a 1980 XS650 what 'appears' to be an early 'Special' model. It's an electronic ignition bike, has the BS-34 carbs, ram-horn handle bars, 16" rear wheel, and other attributes of many of the Special models I've seen. However, that said, it also has some of what I've seen only on 'Standard' model bikes......and I'm a bit confused by this. First, and of less significance, is the fact that the side covers still have the 'tab mounts' on top....just like the Standard frame bikes. It almost looks like a Standard side cover might fit, but then the lower mount appears to be a 'push-in' mount like that of the later Specials. So, looks like only one type of side cover will fit this bike. But, the main issue is the seat!! This thing came to me with what I'd call an 'undesirable' (and that's putting it mildly.....more like 'fugly' in my book....but trying to be sensitive to the guys who still like this kind of thing.....) King-Queen seat with a built-in raised up seat back that extends up about 16" to 18". It had some kind of sissy bar associated with this seat........ and both are now PERMANENTLY removed!!! But, what I can't figure out is the mounting configuration of this seat. I ran into the fact that the early XS-1s and 2s had a hinged seat that had different spacing than my later Standard frame bikes. Not possible to swap seats between these bikes. All my 'standards' between 1975 and 1979 have the same 'hinged' seat.......and the seat pivots to the side on the hinges and latches on the left side of the bike. And, virtually every Special I've had used a seat mount that had locators in the front by the tank and drop-on latches in the rear. The seat simply lifted off the frame completely. However, this bike appears to have the 'standard' seat mount hinges on the right side of the frame....and the latch on the left side. But, when I attempted to put a spare seat that I had from one of my Standard bikes on to this bike, I discovered that this frame also has welded to it the same 'prop rail guide' that I recall from my old XS-1 and 2 bikes. On those bikes the seat had a little prop rod that slid along a rail on the frame and when the seat was opened to the left side it would go about to the 90 degree point and then the prop rod would stop it from going any further. That's missing on every 'standard' I've ever had.....but this '80 bike has the track welded to the frame of the bike. AND....the hinges fit the spacing of my 75-79 seat. I couldn't tip the seat down far enough to see if the latch lined up as that prop-rod track got in the way. But.....I want to go with a 'standard' seat on this thing....and I'm wondering if ANYONE knows about this '80 set-up and what to do about putting a conventional seat on the bike? Do I need to find an old '80 seat pan and use it.....or do I just chop off that prop-rod track and use my '79 seat.....or what? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. For the record, I'm a LONG way from being able to ride this bike. I only got it 2 days ago.......and it's got a LOT of electrical problems. Hopefully the ignitor box will be OK. Otherwise, I'll be looking for a new ignition system as well.

As always...thanks for the help!! Tom D.

 

[650Skull]

Pic's tell a thousand words..............That being said i'll try to explain some differences.............had a bit of trouble sorting through your descriptions.

In 1980 there were 2 models.

An 80SG, mag wheels, disk brake on the rear, clip on seat, (no hinges), TCI ignition, BS34 Carbs, alloy grab rail, plastic side-covers, (these clip on).




An 80G, Spoke wheels, Drum brake on the rear, Hinged seat, TCI ignition, Bs34 carbs, Chrome on steel grab-rail, metal side-covers, (Same attachment as the earlier Standards with slots on top and a latch on the bottom)
Visually the 80G Special II is the same as the 78SE/79SF




A Standard seat can be made to fit a Hinged seat Special Frame. HERE is a good thread on the Standard seat swapped to a Hinged seat Special, (78SE/79SF/80G SII

 

[Wharfcreek]

Skull, thanks for responding!! I believe I have a 'G', as I just went and pulled the cover and noted that it does have spoke wheels, a drum brake, and it does appear that the attachment point below the side covers DOES have the slot where the roll-pin can line up, go through, twist, and lock down the side cover.

As to the seat, is it your opinion that a 'standard' seat from a '75-'79 should fit this frame if I grind that track off of it? By that, I'm talking about grinding, or removing, that portion of the 'track' or 'guide' that would have supported the seat prop rod in the frame.....with the other portion of the prop rod simply attaching to the seat.

Sorry about no pics, but I'm posting this at 9 pm and the bike is outside, on a trailer, and under a tarp. I can perhaps pull the tarp tomorrow in the light and see if I can't get a pic or two. But, I was hoping to use 1000 words as a substitute for the picture (does it work both ways?........ I dunno...???) Anyway, at least we've made some progress. I was both surprised and delighted when the hinges from the seat matched those on the frame. This seat was on my '79 when I bought it, and it's been a 'spare' that I've used on other bikes here and there over the past decade. Too good to throw away, but not good enough to 'sell' or leave permanently on a bike. Anyway....the frame spacing 'looks' the same on the other side where the latch assembly is.....but this damn guide thing is keeping the seat from laying over all the way. The king-queen seat that came on the bike laid flat.....and presumably was an after-market option that may have even been added to the bike when new. The fitment between it and the sissy bar more or less shows it to have been a 'kit' of some kind....and who knows when it was added. I just think these kinds of 'options' were more or less 'out of style' by the mid-80s........so with the bike being an '80, I'd almost guess it to have been installed at the dealership when the bike was purchased 'new'. But, again, no way to really tell for sure. But, I do know it fits properly,....with no interference between the seat pan and this guide channel. My '79 seat does NOT fit.....as it DOES interfere with that guide channel mount. So, maybe it's just a simple matter of grinding that off there.....although I'm still curious about the 'hump' brace that is part of the frame in the rear....but where the rear fender mounts. I was hoping that someone who may have actually been through this in the past might have 'the answer'.......

 

[nj1639]

Sounds like my kind of fun. Are you thinking of Standardizing this Special or just looking for a Special seat to replace the K/Q?

 

[650Skull]

In the link to the seat change, the Standard Seat, (any from 74-79), it shows the seat needs some spacers added to the hinge side so the latch will fit the Special latch holder. If that makes sense. Special seat pans are deeper than the Standard so the latch mechanism sits differently to the pan.
Standard seat on top..............Special, 78SE/79SF/79SII/80G SII, seat on bottom

Standard seat............................ Special 78SE/79SF/79SII/80G SII seat

 

[Wharfcreek]

Skull,

My laptop screen had cut off that last line where you supplied the link to the seat-swap. Sorry to have missed it, but I just saw it above and I'll go scroll through it now.

NJ, I have a set of the aluminum rim wheels.....and I plan to add those to the bike at minimum. There's a gent here on the forum who goes by 'Resto' and he's done some INCREDIBLE things in attempting to take a standard XS and 'emulate' a Bonneville. I'm hoping to work with him some to see if I too can't make this bike into a project like that. I'm going to start the project on my '79 Standard, but then 'migrate' it to this '80 once I get the '80 up and running. I'd like to leave my '79 as 'stock' as possible, although I did do a tank-swap with a 'Special' on that bike several years back just because I much prefer the cosmetic lines of the Special tank over that of the Standard. NEVER cared for the seat of the Special though!! I guess my years on Brit Bikes just set me in my ways!!

Thanks for the comments. Skull, going to read the seat-swap thread now. Thanks again for the help!

Tom D.

 

[nj1639]

I think your side tins will swap. Since you have the '79 Standard, try hanging those tins on the '80. If they fit then it's a matter of adapting a Standard seat to fit on the '80 and securing another set of tins for those cosmetics.......part way there....lol

 

[Wharfcreek]

OK, I just read through 79's thread on the seat swap. Unfortunately, the issue of installing the spaces, while clearly shown in his pics as to 'where' they are located, the reason 'why' he had to install them is not stated clearly. I'm still wondering if he did this to compensate for the same issue I'm concerned with; that being the inclusion of this seat prop rod bracket? From what I can now tell, it seems that the first thing I should do is to just chop that bracket out of there. Other than holding that little rod that propped up the seat, it does nothing else. And, since I no longer have any seats with prop-rods....why have the bracket on my frame. Time for the cutting disc tool!! Once that is done, the seat will lay down flatter....but whether or not it will go ALL THE WAY flat is yet unknown. I don't know if I can get to this tomorrow am before I go to work.....and we've got another cold snap that's supposed to hit tonight as well. So, may be a few days before I can get to this. But, I'll take some pics as well as update this for future reference. Made a good bit of progress tonight. Thanks Skull and NJ.

Oh, and NJ, I've got a bucket full of those side covers, including a freshly painted set along with a freshly painted 'Special' tank that ought to look good on this bike. Guess I need to invest in some new handle bars as well.....as those Ram Horns have GOT TO GO!!

Later, Tom D.

 

[650Skull]

Post #9 in the 79xs thread mentions he had the same problem with the seat not closing. That is why he used the spacers to lift the seat enough so it will close and be level. .........................Cutting the brace out may work. Can only try

 

[Wharfcreek]

Damn! I must have missed that. Blame 'multi-tasking'. Thanks Skull! I'm going to chop that bracket out and see what happens. Worst case scenario is that it will result in needing shorter spacers. Best case is that it will eliminate the need altogether. Thanks for your closer scrutiny!! Much appreciated. Tom D.