Charge Wiring question...

[TheMonkey]

I have ‘74 XS

the 6 pin harness coming from alternator has:
- white
- white
- white
- green
- black
- blue (neutral)

I purchased Mikes solid state reg/Rec for ‘70-‘79 part number 24-2089.

following picture are the instructions. I’m not sure why the instructions for 70-79 specific part has instructions that say 81.

I do not have a brown wire available coming from my brushes in the harness.

I’ve read bunches of posts, and it’s still not clear. It seems to me that the black wire I have in harness comes from inner brush (rather than brown) and grounded In the case? So do I treat my black harness wire as brown and insulate the brush from case (nylon screw)?

Thanks for anyone able to help me out on this.

 

[Jim]

81 uses an "A" type regulator, yours is a "B" type. Green goes to one brush, black to the other.

 

[TheMonkey]

...yours is a "B" type. Green goes to one brush, black to the other.

That’s what I suspected. They must have posted wrong instructions.

Any tips on how I wire this?

 

[650Skull]

Bottom of that diagram states 81 simplified wiring diagram.................Why MikesXS would use that diagram for his points model, (B type), Solid state Reg/Rect that he sells is completely beyond me.........Its been up there for years......must be a lot of guys that he sell to that do damage to their bikes using that diagram........

here is a thread i made for wiring up your points model, (B type), combined SS Reg/Rect.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-in-a-70-79-combined-reg-rect-to-a-points-model-xs650.52339/

 

[TheMonkey]

...
here is a thread i made for wiring up your points model, (B type), combined SS Reg/Rect.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/wiring-in-a-70-79-combined-reg-rect-to-a-points-model-xs650.52339/

Thank you !!

The red wire shows direct to battery. I can see how original regulator and rectifier would not parasite at all, but does the solid state have a parasitic draw?

 

[650Skull]

Diagrams in that thread are condensed versions.....

Here is the 74TXA diagram..............

Most diagrams do have some faults. This ones most obvious, is the tachometer doesn't show it having the Neutral or high beam lights.............think the rest is ok

 

[Jim]

but does the solid state have a parasitic draw?

No.

 

[TheMonkey]

Reckon I need some more help...

I have wired it exactly like the thread @650Skull shared in the linked thread above. Schematic looks like this:

However, I have no charging. This bike I received in non-operable condition. Getting close... but this dang charging...

I *thought* I was charging because voltage was 13.0, but that’s only because lithium battery has higher resting voltage. I have bike running, but not yet riding, so voltage has crept down with some testing, now at 12.7.

reading through the Curly charging post.... tests 1-6:

1 - battery voltage does not react at all with revs, headlight does not react with higher rpms
2 - The magnetic field turns on with key, but it is very very weak (paper thin feeler gauge reacts with key only with cover off)
3 - green wire jumped to ground makes no difference to system voltage while running (seems that should max the charge output)
4 - my older system does not have a positive brush to check voltage as per curly post, but I have virtually no resistance from black brush to ground And from green brush to regulator connection - seems wiring connections to brushes are okay.
5 - rotor has 5.3v between slip rings with brushes removed, Each Ring has infinity resistance to motor ground
6 - unplugged stator wires have 0.5 ohms for each of 3 combinations

Brushes seem to be okay. I borrowed a set from my sons bike, same situation.

Argh.

Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

 

[TheMonkey]

Also - on test #6... measured AC voltage between white stator wire combos while harness connected. Each on measured 0.8 volts AC. Seems that should have been 10.5-11.0 volts AC.

 

[TheMonkey]

The stators low AC voltage must be low because of the weak magnetic field cannot excite them?

Made me think both sets of brushes are bum screaming weak field. So I measured the voltage going to green wire brush from regulator. Measured with key on, not running shouldn’t green wire from regulator also be 12.7v (same as battery) in order to create magnetic field? The voltage on green wire at connector and at brush is 0.7 volts.

Does this indicate bum regulator unit? With this older grounded system, I don’t see any other way to hook it up. Certainly can’t connect it the way Mikes instructions suggested, would be a direct short.

 

[Jim]

The voltage on green wire at connector and at brush is 0.7 volts.

Does this indicate bum regulator unit?

Yes, that's the likely suspect

 

[gggGary]

4 - my older system does not have a positive brush to check voltage as per curly post, but I have virtually no resistance from black brush to ground And from green brush to regulator connection - seems wiring connections to brushes are okay.

All charging systems have both a negative and positive brush. If you have an early type system one brush is grounded other should be at plus 12

you may not have the correct type regulator.

Disconnect the regulator wire from the positive brush and supply +12 with a jumper, for short time testing only, that should result in full charging. (don't hold high RPM for more than a few seconds).

 

[gggGary]

To reinforce.
Early systems; through 1979
have one brush grounded ALL the time
regulator supplies +12 to the other brush as needed.

Late systems; 1980 on
have one brush +12 whenever the switch is on.
Regulator supplies ground to other brush as needed.

These regulators are completely different and cannot be interchanged. Guys often get confused and mix up regulator types.

 

[5twins]

Save both yourself and your wallet additional pain and quit buying those way over priced combined units from MikesXS. As you've discovered, they can be a nightmare to wire properly and are easily fried if you don't. The 650 uses an automotive style 3 phase alternator which means we can use low cost, very well made automotive regulators. The usual choice for your early model is a VR115. This is a type B power switching regulator and can be had for about $30 from almost any auto parts store. And if you shop eBay, you can often score one for $10 to $15. For a rectifier, we just use one from the electronics world. A rectifier is a rectifier, they all do the same thing - convert AC to DC current. Many of us use this $10 unit from Windy Nation .....

https://www.windynation.com/Rectifier/35-Amp-3-Phase-Bridge-Rectifier/-/218?p=YzE9MjA=

 

[TheMonkey]

I put 12v to green wire and all behaves that way. Bum regulator. I’ll assemble parts, going to use the nylon screw route because the VR38SB is just easier to find locally in inventory if needed.

 

[650Skull]

I put 12v to green wire and all behaves that way. Bum regulator. I’ll assemble parts, going to use the nylon screw route because the VR38SB is just easier to find locally in inventory if needed.

If your going to use an Automotive Reg then get the B type for a points bike.

If you can't work out what Reg/rect or separate Reg, Rect, to use with a points bike. ....................Mixing and matching a B type bike to an A type Reg/rect or separate reg, Rect, using Nylon screws will be harder and more problematic....................The advice i gave is correct for the Quoted part no from MikesXS. ..........

What you need to do is post up pics so we can work out what you have and have done...............make sure the pics cover what is needed to be seen, not real close ups

 

[TheMonkey]

If your going to use an Automotive Reg then get the B type for a points bike.

If you can't work out what Reg/rect or separate Reg, Rect, to use with a points bike. ....................Mixing and matching a B type bike to an A type Reg/rect or separate reg, Rect, using Nylon screws will be harder and more problematic....................The advice i gave is correct for the Quoted part no from MikesXS. ..........

What you need to do is post up pics so we can work out what you have and have done...............make sure the pics cover what is needed to be seen, not real close ups

yes, your advice was perfect thank you. As I was troubleshooting, Mikes sent me this picture which matches yours:

I believe my questions have been answered, thanks.

interestingly, On that mikes unit, the green wire from reg *will* put out +12v when unconnected. However, any load at all and then voltage vanishes. The load from brushes, or even load from tiny probe test light kills the voltage. I expect the automotive regulator will be much more durable.

 

[5twins]

You can buy the VR115 or one of it's equivalents all day long off eBay. The VR115 is the Standard Motors part number for this regulator. There are lots of others by different manufacturers using different part numbers. Here's a few more you can search for .....

M5-701 12V B-Circuit (Regulated Power)
GRX-528 Motorcraft (Ford)
VR 1010 NAPA Echlin
VR727 Wells
1V1033 Airtex
C622 AC Delco
VR-1760 Ace
VR291 GP Sorensen
RAB 12A6 Electro Systems
R292 BWD
KVR179 Borg Warner
A71N AE

 

[itschrisb]

You can buy the VR115 or one of it's equivalents all day long off eBay. The VR115 is the Standard Motors part number for this regulator. There are lots of others by different manufacturers using different part numbers. Here's a few more you can search for .....

M5-701 12V B-Circuit (Regulated Power)
GRX-528 Motorcraft (Ford)
VR 1010 NAPA Echlin
VR727 Wells
1V1033 Airtex
C622 AC Delco
VR-1760 Ace
VR291 GP Sorensen
RAB 12A6 Electro Systems
R292 BWD
KVR179 Borg Warner
A71N AE

is there an upgraded or better unit for the ‘80- bikes?

 

[Jim]

is there an upgraded or better unit for the ‘80- bikes?

Yeah, make your own. Have a look here.