Dash and Signal light Help

[Erika Rodriguez]

‘78 xs650
Everything worked as it should a couple of weeks ago. Today I went for a ride and I noticed that both my right signal lights stopped working (left works fine). Also my signal light and headlight dash indicators stopped working (break and neutral works fine).

Signal light bulbs are good; checked them on the functional left side.

Flash relay?

No LEDs installed. Whole bike is stock.

Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[jpdevol]

The meter lights and R signal circuits don't have much in common. My first guess would be that you've lost ground to one of the right signals, perhaps if it's the R front signal ground the dash bulbs also lost ground - check black wire connections in the headlight bucket and continuity to battery negative

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

The meter lights and R signal circuits don't have much in common. My first guess would be that you've lost ground to one of the right signals, perhaps if it's the R front signal ground the dash bulbs also lost ground - check black wire connections in the headlight bucket and continuity to battery negative

I’ll check that out tomorrow, thanks!

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

The meter lights and R signal circuits don't have much in common. My first guess would be that you've lost ground to one of the right signals, perhaps if it's the R front signal ground the dash bulbs also lost ground - check black wire connections in the headlight bucket and continuity to battery negative

Just taking a look at this response again and I have one more question. So if the dash and signal lights are not connected, or at least they don’t influence one another, any suggestions for the dash issue?

As for signals, I did check the back right signal light (easier access) when I got home from my ride and it was grounded properly. I checked only the back lights though and all the wires were connected properly. Maybe something lost ground up front, in the headlight bucket as you said. Will check tonight!

 

[jpdevol]

dash and signal lights are not connected, or at least they don’t influence one another, any suggestions for the dash issue?

The headlight dash bulb isn't connected to the signals, the signal indicator, of course is on the power side. Does the signal indicator light when the left signal is used?

The reason I pointed you toward a grounding issue is just that it could explain both failing at the same time. To properly test the circuits a cheap multimeter would be good as it will tell you what's happening electrically rather than just checking the physical connection. So equipped you can verify that power is reaching the bulb and that the ground side is connected too

If you don't have a multimeter, they're available at home centers, hardware stores & auto parts stores - example
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-...nnova-hands-free-digital-multimeter/64471_0_0

 

[5twins]

The dash lights may have simply burned out. When I got my 650, most of them were.

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

The headlight dash bulb isn't connected to the signals, the signal indicator, of course is on the power side. Does the signal indicator light when the left signal is used?

The reason I pointed you toward a grounding issue is just that it could explain both failing at the same time. To properly test the circuits a cheap multimeter would be good as it will tell you what's happening electrically rather than just checking the physical connection. So equipped you can verify that power is reaching the bulb and that the ground side is connected too

If you don't have a multimeter, they're available at home centers, hardware stores & auto parts stores - example
https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-...nnova-hands-free-digital-multimeter/64471_0_0

No signal indicators lights come up on the dash. But both of the left-side signal lights do.
I do have a multimeter, I will check if power is reaching the bulb.

The only other piece of information I have, which I should have have mentioned earlier TBH, is that I had the back wheel replaced and the carb cleaned, since the last time I rode it. I figured they are unrelated to those shop fixes, but do you think it's possible they disconnected something accidently? Or is that out of the question based on the work done?

Thanks for taking the time to explain! Still relatively knew to this. I was just trying to see if it was something simple (or not their fault) before telling the shop. I just got it back yesterday.

I appreciate you!

 

[jpdevol]

No signal indicators lights come up on the dash. But both of the left-side signal lights do.
I do have a multimeter, I will check if power is reaching the bulb.

The only other piece of information I have, which I should have have mentioned earlier TBH, is that I had the back wheel replaced and the carb cleaned, since the last time I rode it. I figured they are unrelated to those shop fixes, but do you think it's possible they disconnected something accidently? Or is that out of the question based on the work done?

Thanks for taking the time to explain! Still relatively knew to this. I was just trying to see if it was something simple (or not their fault) before telling the shop. I just got it back yesterday.

I appreciate you!

It's unlikely to be related, but anything is possible

Post back if you have any questions about the ground (black wires) part of the circuits and how to test them

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

It's unlikely to be related, but anything is possible

Post back if you have any questions about the ground (black wires) part of the circuits and how to test them

What a day!
My eyes and back are sore, but I’ve learned a lot about electricity today. After hours of staring at wiring diagrams and watching YouTube videos on how to test these circuits using the multimeter (hopefully correctly!), I think I may have narrowed down some possibilities.

I took off the headlight as you suggested and checked all the wires leading to the right and left signal lights. All tested well on the front and back.

But while checking through the wires in the back I noticed the Ch and Dg wires were switched (the signal lights were installed backwards at some point :/ ). Since I was already there, I decided to switch them back and noticed the right signal light was loose and possibly not properly grounded. When I held the base in place and turned it on, for a few seconds the right side turned on and the dash indicator!

While looking at the wiring diagram I saw that the right signal light connects to the dash indicator. (Attached diagram). So I’m assuming the issue is connected somehow.

I installed a back rack a while ago and it connects to the signal light where it meets the frame (pic attached). It must have slowly came loose. Tightened everything.

Turned on the bike and now my left signal was being weird (only turning on sometimes) and the right still not working. I’ve been messing with lights all day so I figured I discharged my battery. Checked it with the multimeter and it was indeed, discharged. Sad. The battery is charging now and I will check again tomorrow.

Conclusion:
The fact that the right signal and dash indicator turned on for a sec is promising but I’m still not sure what’s wrong. I’m assuming it’s something to do with the back. It’s definitely not the signal light housing itself since they have been switched and it works on the left side.

Sorry. That was a VERY long response. But it was also a VERY long day.

I appreciate all of y’all’s help with this problem!

 

[jpdevol]

Awesome! Great work, I'm sure you'll get it

 

[650Skull]

https://www.xs650.com/threads/continuity-testing-made-easy.49917/

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

Okay so I put the battery on the bike and now BOTH SIDES don’t work. :,,(

I’m not sure what to try next and any direction is appreciated!

 

[5twins]

You might want to check the handlebar switch. Sometimes the wires break off it and have to be soldered back on.

And I think you may be referring to the wrong wiring diagram. I don't think any of the '78-'79 Standard models got the fuse box with 4 fuses, I'm pretty sure they all had just one fuse, a main 20 amp one coming off the battery. Also, they had the simpler 3 wire light checker, not the more complex 7 wire unit. That diagram you're looking at is for the Special model. The flasher indicators in the dash are wired differently as well.

 

[jpdevol]

Okay so I put the battery on the bike and now BOTH SIDES don’t work. :,,(

I’m not sure what to try next and any direction is appreciated!

Hmm......Well........if other things have power, consult your wiring diagram and start at the head of that circuit and check for voltage (it's the fuse on the brown wire), then work progressively to the flasher then the bar switch, etc

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

You might want to check the handlebar switch. Sometimes the wires break off it and have to be soldered back on.

And I think you may be referring to the wrong wiring diagram. I don't think any of the '78-'79 Standard models got the fuse box with 4 fuses, I'm pretty sure they all had just one fuse, a main 20 amp one coming off the battery. Also, they had the simpler 3 wire light checker, not the more complex 7 wire unit. That diagram you're looking at is for the Special model. The flasher indicators in the dash are wired differently as well.

I will check the handlebar switch, that was my next area to look again based on some previous posts here. I did take it off on Sunday, but since the right side turned on while moving the base of the signal light, I didn’t check underneath the signal light switch housing. Maybe something came loose when reattaching. I will check underneath this time and make sure everything is good. When I engage the signal switch it doesn’t make a sound anymore (like a soft electrical click). So hopefully it’s just something in there.


I just double checked the s/n underneath the engine and it says 2F0-007939 so I assumed (also the previous owner said) the “xs650e late” since it says after 2F0-006501. Would it be the xs650D diagram? Anything after E has 4 fuses in the manual.

Thanks for the insight 5twins!

 

[Jim]

That s/n should be a '78. But that's going off the engine s/n. Does the headstock and/or title say the same? Engines can be swapped out pretty easy. what the frame says, is more relevant.

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

Hmm......Well........if other things have power, consult your wiring diagram and start at the head of that circuit and check for voltage (it's the fuse on the brown wire), then work progressively to the flasher then the bar switch, etc

Apologies, I’m not sure what you mean. I’ve been checking in ohms (but I know that v=IR so I’m assuming it’s another way to check the circuit).

Just to confirm I understand this correctly: If I have it set to ohms I am checking resistance. If I have it set to volts I’m checking the energy potential that a given circuit can provide. Correct? If so, what is considered a “good” reading? How do you check for voltage? As in, where do I need to put the negative and positive probes on my multimeter? I know this may seem simple, but I’m truly at a loss.

Do I need to find the fuse box and check the brown wire leading to those fuses? I’ve been told by someone else that I may be using the wrong wiring diagram for my ‘78 xs650 standard. I’ve been using the one attached above, if you have any wisdom on this confusion.

If there are any YouTube videos y’all would suggest it would be greatly appreciated since I’m still not completely sure if I am checking this correctly to begin with and I know these are a lot of questions. I’m motivated to fix this myself and I appreciate all of your help. Thanks!!

 

[Erika Rodriguez]

That s/n should be a '78. But that's going off the engine s/n. Does the headstock and/or title say the same? Engines can be swapped out pretty easy. what the frame says, is more relevant.

That’s what the title says as well! So should I be using the late xs650e diagram? Thanks Jim!

 

[jpdevol]

Apologies, I’m not sure what you mean. I’ve been checking in ohms (but I know that v=IR so I’m assuming it’s another way to check the circuit).

Just to confirm I understand this correctly: If I have it set to ohms I am checking resistance. If I have it set to volts I’m checking the energy potential that a given circuit can provide. Correct? If so, what is considered a “good” reading? How do you check for voltage? As in, where do I need to put the negative and positive probes on my multimeter? I know this may seem simple, but I’m truly at a loss.

Do I need to find the fuse box and check the brown wire leading to those fuses? I’ve been told by someone else that I may be using the wrong wiring diagram for my ‘78 xs650 standard. I’ve been using the one attached above, if you have any wisdom on this confusion.

If there are any YouTube videos y’all would suggest it would be greatly appreciated since I’m still not completely sure if I am checking this correctly to begin with and I know these are a lot of questions. I’m motivated to fix this myself and I appreciate all of your help. Thanks!!

Sorry, I should have explained.....Yes, to trace a positive DC circuit it's better to switch to DC volts on the meter, hook the black probe to ground (I like the rear tank mount as it's central) and probe the circuit's connectors with the red probe - testing for 12 volts.

So, I guess first we need to determine if you have a fuse box with 4 fuses (late model usually under the seat) or you have a single 20A fuse under the right side cover (then the circuit looks like a '77 model)

 

[5twins]

Here's what my '78 looks like under that right cover. The single fuse is in the upper left, in a plastic holder (with room for a spare fuse) .....

Here's a close-up of the fuse holder .....

If you have a fuse box instead, it would be up under the seat, sitting on top of the battery. Here's the one in my Special .....

If you go here, you can download an E model manual with the proper wiring diagram .....

https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/xs650-manuals/