Electronic Ignition Problem

[79josh81]

So, I just finished putting a build together of an 81' xs650. Had it running today to sync the carbs then took it for an 8 mile ride and it rode and sounded great. I'm running a PMA and the XSCharge electronic ignition. Here the ignition I'm running...

This is what the ignition looks like...

So when I get back from the 8 mile test ride, I park it in the driveway and leave it running while I go inside to get some warmer clothes on to take it for another spin. I go back outside and the bike is still running. As I walk up to the bike it just dies. I'm like "maybe I'm out of fuel?". I check and fill her up and try to restart it. It still won't start. It turns over, sounds good turning, but still won't start.

Obviously my next thought is fuses and checking for spark. I check the fuses and all are good and that includes the 7.5 amp fuse coming from the ignition. I check for spark and I have no spark on either spark plug wire. I never did anything as far as turning the bike on without a plug connected or grounded where I could have damaged the coil and like I said, the bike was running and just died. I opened up the chrome ignition cover and don't see anything on the ignition that looks like it fried. I pulled the gas tank and checked the wiring connections for the ignition and everything is tight and plugged in where it's supposed to be.

Has anyone ever had this happen? This is the first time I've ever ran one of the aftermarket electronic ignitions so I could use some help here. I know this is an XSCharge ignition and NOT a PAMCO (which might be my first problem) but it's just weird that it ran fine and then all of a sudden just no spark to either plug. How do I go about testing the ignition itself and then how do I go about testing the coil?

If it's not the ignition or the coil, the only other thing it could be is a loose wire somewhere in the wiring harness and before I go tearing that apart, I'd like to just test the coil and ignition.

 

[650Skull]

http://www.xs650.com/threads/pamco-ignition.46859/

 

[JE4570]

I am currently in a similar boat but with a pamco. Mine was running great. I put about 60 to 70 miles on it then it quit on me. My Pamco is currently in for warranty repair/replace.

The first thing you want to do is test for +12 volts at the red/white wire that powers coil and ignition. If all is well there then the next thing to do is test the coil. If it sparks independently from the ignition then your ignition unit is probably to blame.

I tested my coil for spark by doing this:

1. Make sure the red/white +12 volt wire is connected to one end of the coil

2. Connect a wire the the other terminal of the coil.

3. Make sure one spark plug is grounded while you check the other for spark. Make sure both are properly grounded

3. with the ignition on. Brush that wire (from step 2) on to a ground/ negative battery terminal. The goal is to make it spark a bunch.

4. Check the spark plug for spark. If it does, then your coil is alright.

Doing that I determined that my coil was sparking, but it it seemed to be doing so weakly. My pamco unit wasn’t getting any spark from the coil so I assumed it got fried.

I went through and cleaned everything with a red/white wire all over my bike and behind my headlight and replaced my coil anyway. Whenever I get my ignition back we will see how it works. I will definitely be making damn sure that everything is perfect so that my new unit doesn’t get fried ever again.

Good luck!

 

[79josh81]

Thanks skull I actually just found that on the google. What is considered the “center core of the coil”?

 

[79josh81]

Thanks je4570, I’ll check that out.

 

[motormike]

…. we had a issue.. thought it was a coil.. got replacement coil....same issue... thought control box was defective.. got control box..same issue.. then... got new rotor …. no more issues.

 

[79josh81]

The ignition rotor?

 

[motormike]

Yup... a first.. never heard of it before.. but the boys at Mike's said... rotor.. sent us one..and vroom vroom.. weird.

 

[650Skull]

Thanks skull I actually just found that on the google. What is considered the “center core of the coil”?

Why Google............That thread is in the......"Tech menu"

 

[79josh81]

Yeah I just saw that too.

 

[650Skull]

Easy to forget some times......we do what the mind thinks, not make the mind do

 

[79josh81]

So I ran through the list so far I got...

For the coil:
-4 ohm from terminal to terminal
-all tests for open circuits were good
-one plug terminal to the other was 23,000 ohm. Higher than the 15,000 to 20,000 in the test procedure but not sure if that would make that much of a difference.

For the ignition:
-almost 12v on both red/white wires with the key and kill switch on. (It probably would be more but I’ve been juicing the battery going through different tests).

Still no spark. I checked spark on both sides by grounding a spare spark plug. I also used my spark plug wire tester and have no spark (current) going through either wire when I turn the engine over. I also checked the ignition plate and have voltage going to the circuit board on the plate via both the green and red wires when the ignition is on.

What do you guy think? Ignition rotor maybe? I’m lost.

 

[79josh81]

Yup... a first.. never heard of it before.. but the boys at Mike's said... rotor.. sent us one..and vroom vroom.. weird.

Did they send you the rotor for free? I got this ignition from mikesxs.

 

[JE4570]

So I ran through the list so far I got...

For the coil:
-4 ohm from terminal to terminal
-all tests for open circuits were good
-one plug terminal to the other was 23,000 ohm. Higher than the 15,000 to 20,000 in the test procedure but not sure if that would make that much of a difference.

For the ignition:
-almost 12v on both red/white wires with the key and kill switch on. (It probably would be more but I’ve been juicing the battery going through different tests).

Still no spark. I checked spark on both sides by grounding a spare spark plug. I also used my spark plug wire tester and have no spark (current) going through either wire when I turn the engine over. I also checked the ignition plate and have voltage going to the circuit board on the plate via both the green and red wires when the ignition is on.

What do you guy think? Ignition rotor maybe? I’m lost.

Did you try my method to see if the coil sparks independent of the ignition system? When you say no spark, if you have taken the ignition system out of the equation, then we could assume the coil or wiring is the culprit especially if you have a consistent 12 volts at the red wire. If you are testing for spark with the ignition system by just turning the engine over, you can’t determine whether or not it is your coil or the ignition system, or both. So I would make sure your coil isn’t the issue first by testing for spark with the method I mentioned if you haven’t.

 

[79josh81]

Did you try my method to see if the coil sparks independent of the ignition system? When you say no spark, if you have taken the ignition system out of the equation, then we could assume the coil or wiring is the culprit especially if you have a consistent 12 volts at the red wire. If you are testing for spark with the ignition system by just turning the engine over, you can’t determine whether or not it is your coil or the ignition system, or both. So I would make sure your coil isn’t the issue first by testing for spark with the method I mentioned if you haven’t.

I didn't have a chance yet. So if I understand this right...with the ignition on, when I brush the other end of the test lead wire that I connected to one of the coil terminals to a ground, I should get some sparks from the end of the test lead wire where it touches ground AND I should get spark on one of the spark plugs? If I get spark on the spark plug it's the ignition system and if I don't get spark on the spark plug it's the coil?

I just want to make sure I understand this right first so I don't damage anything.

 

[JE4570]

Yes you have it right, I used jumper cables. It will spark at the ground contact point, but you are only concerned with getting spark at the plug.

 

[79josh81]

Yes you have it right, I used jumper cables. It will spark at the ground contact point, but you are only concerned with getting spark at the plug.

So can I leave one spark plug in the engine and then pull the other one and ground it to the engine? Or do I need to pull both plugs, ground both to the engine, and watch both plugs for spark?

 

[JE4570]

Yes. I leave one in the engine and then prop the other against the side of the engine so I can see it and have my hands free to deal with the wire. When you break contact with the ground it should spark at the plugs.

 

[79josh81]

Yes. I leave one in the engine and then prop the other against the side of the engine so I can see it and have my hands free to deal with the wire. When you break contact with the ground it should spark at the plugs.

Cool. I’ll give a try when I have a chance and report back. Thanks for the early morning clarification man.

 

[79josh81]

Yes. I leave one in the engine and then prop the other against the side of the engine so I can see it and have my hands free to deal with the wire. When you break contact with the ground it should spark at the plugs.

So I went and did the test and I got spark on the test wire end and also got spark in the spark plug gap. So my ignition unit is the problem then if my wiring is all good?