Emz' build thread '80 chopper

[emzdogz]

I guess I would like to have a build thread, so I can just post stuff on here instead of starting a new thread every time I do something.

I really respect and admire the skill and strength of those folks who can put together an awesome custom bike in a few weeks.

I can't. Its taking me forever! Have had stuff come up in between and "lulls" happen. Have owned this bike for at least 10 years now - more like 12-13 I think. What happened is my Mom backed into this guy's bike and crunched the rear end. Very young dude, didn't particularly LIKE the model of bike per se, but did love it because it was his.
So, the ins. wasn't gonna give him squat for the bike.
My Mom felt very guilty and after some prodding from me, paid the guy like $1000. I'd already been to a local bike boneyard looking for parts to make it "whole" for him beyond what the ins was gonna give him....but I knew what an XS650 was and, ok, I admit, I WANTED it. Crunched ass and all.
So Mom gave him the $$, he bought a used Suzuki Intruder which suited him better. He was happy, I was geeked. My Mom, not so happy, but no longer feeling guilty either.
So it sat here.
I had other bikes in between. Stock, the 80 Special was wayyyyyyyyyy too tall for me.
But I still worked on it some. Gave it a new clutch and some other new stuff. Put shorter RedWing shocks on it. Never did sort the seat out tho. SO I could never really ride it. It sat! It was actually chained to a tree for a couple years. I'd chained it to this oak tree when one of the bigger hurricanes was headed our way a few years back.

In between the other bikes I also had a 79 Special named "Fidel" who was my only running/riding bike. For some reason that bike (flatter seat?) was low enough I could get my feet down enough to ride it stock. Fixed it. It was messed up Learned ALOT about the carbs and about timing on a points bike.
Sold it.

Trying to remember what got me going on this 80 again.

Anyway a couple years ago I sawed the back end off and sent it off to get hard-tailed and a couple degrees rake added to neck.

And slowly it is progressing.
The most recent stuff is making a battery "floor" area and today I bled in the rear brake. Brake works great.
Tried it first just the regular way, was taking wayyyyyy too long. So I remembered that I DO own a Mighty Vac, and was able to find it. Wow, ALL the diff in the world!
Got it up to pressure in no time practically. Stuck one of those Mike's electrical banjo-bolt brake light switches one, too.

Was going to try and deal with relocating the reservoir for the aftermarket master cyl, but I left it where it is for now - bolted to a nut I welded to the front surface of the back fender.

One slight worry I have is that I' relying on the back fender too much, to be functional in other ways than keeping mud off my back and my crotch off the back tire.
But we'll see. Its nice and strong, the back fender, so why not utilize it.

ONe other thing I'm kind of worried about it whe I jack the bike up and turn the rear wheel by hand, I mean its NOT super easy to turn. It was that way too, even before I got the brake working, so its not that.

I know on other bikes, when I've not ridden them in a long while, they seemed hard to back up right at first, or roll easily powered by feet only. ANd then it frees up a bit. Have noticed this on shaft, belt and chain bikes. So I'm hoping I don't have some worse problem. My chain IS tight. I was hoping to go ahead and have it stretch some, so when it gets to the rideable stage the new chain will have already stretched. So maybe chain tightness has something to do with it. But really, I think it was that way even before I installed the chain. So with no brake and no chain and axle torqued to spec, it was already not that easy to spin the back tire, with bike jacked up. In fact I couldn't just "spin" it, like give it a whirl and it keep spinning. Nope. Had to move it by hand the whole time.
Any ideas?

thx. Like I said I will post more here in this thread as I go.

this is a link to my pic thread. Will add more soon.
http://www.xs650.com/forum/album.php?albumid=41
Next I'm thinking front brake and bar controls mounted. Or carbs and pipes. Not sure.

 

[Teebs]

You said it was hit in the ass-end; is the axle bent? Or maybe the wheel bearings are just dried out and gummed up from sitting for so long? Sitting for a long time could have built up rust in there too. Just a few thoughts.

It's looking good!

 

[emzdogz]

thx Teebs,
I will check those things. Thinking the wheel bearings scenario is most likely. Damage was to tail light, rear fender, grab bar, turn sigs.... so I believe all the swingarm/wheel stuff was still fine. But I will dbl check that axle bolt too, when I have it out next.

 

[emzdogz]

Today I made a different way to mount the coil. I have an aftermarket (Mike's) black coil and it mounts differently than the stock (fllll fll flll flesh colored) coil. Instead of screws going sideways, this aftermarket coil needs the screws to go down. (at least I sure didn't see how it was gonna fit the other way)

So I cut the old threaded mounting tabs off and instead of having them stick up off that frame tube under the big frame tube under tank I welded them to the tube "flat". I tacked them with the coil screwed to the 2 pieces so to get the distance between holes just right. One side is just tacked and the other side has a nice "real" weld, so I'm hoping this position doesn't prove problematic/disfunctional in some way.

One weird thing...this black coil has a ground wire coming off it in addition to the other 2 wires. No wiring diagrams I'm looking at show a ground wire there, so I'm a little puzzled.
The wire just attaches under the head of the front fastener.

Lots of lumpy stuff still left under there to grind off and clean up prior to paint and reassembly.

 

[09classic650]

lookin good emz cant wait to see it finished

 

[emzdogz]

today I mounted the carbs, after ordering new carb holders from JBM:
http://www.jbmindustries.com/HOLDERS.html

Great service from them, btw...super fast shipping.

Slight "issue" I'm having is that for some reason the carbs (and I suspect the whole engine) sit such that the left carb is slightly closer to the the main frame downtube than the right.
No way to get the filter pods (I had left over from last time) to work that way.

They were crap anyway, that's why I never ended up using them on my 79. So I've ordered some Uni filters, the kind where the body of it is kind of like a big spring so its a bit flexible.

But! I'm hoping that when I tighten all the engine mounting bolts (I need to read about tightening order) that the engine will straighten out a bit so the carbs are exactly evenly spaced from the frame. That does bother me, to be honest.

This pair of carbs is probably the best deal I ever got on eBay...I bought them a few years back when I pirated this bike's 34's to use on my 79, which had terribly haunted, unfixable 38's on it. Ran great as soon as I put the 34's on!

But then I felt guilty leaving this bike with no carbs to put on, when the time came to put it back together.
So for TEN DOLLARS I got a very nice set of stock 34's. Very stock. That plug at the top front isn't even drilled out. I think they are in really nice shape. The slides go up and then down on their own power better than any I've seen. And the choke pulls out and in like buttah..... So we'll see. I realize chances are they'll have to be pulled off and cleaned better before the bike will run - but maybe not!
We shall see. Someday, lol.
So I also orderd a battery from Mike's.
Its getting to the point where I feel like doing just a few more things will put this bike almost at the point where I can try and start it. But in reality, there is much to do before then. But its fun to have that to think about.

 

[angus67]

wierd. my left carb is closer to the down tube, also.

 

[emzdogz]

wierd. my left carb is closer to the down tube, also.

wow, I'm glad you said that.
btw, was reading your build thread...hope you can cure your throttle "hang" somehow. But yours sure is coming along. I still have all that clutch stuff ahead of me...

 

[emzdogz]

wow did I ever buy the ugliest air filters ever! lmao!!!!!!!!! they are the unifilter "sock" type and a. the are HUMONGOUS and b. they are AQUA colored! LOL!!!!!!!!!

Also I'm not sure if the forward-most part of the spring interior is supposed to tighten down over the carb mouth or if the spring is supposed to sit immediately behind the mouth of carb and only the foam sock itself is what I was supposed to tighten. Better not be the spring, as it won't tighten down. Thinking it can't and isn't supposed to, and that the hose clamp tightens foam directly to carb. We shall see! if the 1st carb fart blows 'em off! I have to try and keep a sense of humor about this.... AQUA! bwahahahahahahhah......could be worse....could be "pink"......

 

[emzdogz]

jeez where did this last year go to? Can't believe it's a year more or less since I added to this build thread.

I guess I'll try to post stuff in this thread again, instead of just starting new threads.

The great news is bike starts up SOOOOO easy now! On 2nd notch of choke, and then runs well coming off the choke almost right away. When throttle is blipped it comes back down to idle right away. No backfires or anything funky like that.

What remains to be done:
make the starter button on stock right side bar housing operational, instead of using the big rubber starter button/switch which is now dangling near coil.

Space rear wheel and axle correctly, as I'm removing stock chain adjusters and going to adjuster screws with jamb nuts for that instead. So I have to make sure I have enough in the way of spacers to make up for the axle plates being so much thinner than the stock place on swingarm where axle went through. I measured it the other day - DANG - that thing is over 1/2 inch wide! So I have 20 3/4 in washers being delivered today (since my crap local Home Depot was out of them) and hope to get the correct spacing achieved. Even with stock adjusters + a couple washers I don't have things spaced out enough. I know this because when tightened down, the hole that cotter pin goes in is still 1/4 inch or so outboard of the castle nut. Hole and cotter pin should stick out just a little bit farther from nut, right? or? Anyway, I think more spacers are needed. Once I figure what I truly need, I will buy propers spacers, instead of just using stacks of washers.
I guess, really and truly, while I have the wheel off anyway, I probably should replace the wheel bearing. When on a jack the wheel has just never been easy to turn by hand with axle tightened - regardless of whether chain is hooked up or not. It just doesn't spin very easy. So that's a whole 'nother can of worms. I mean MAYBE it would loosen up on its own, just by riding it, but maybe not - and this way it would be putting extra drag on the bike.

Same for front I guess, except that one seem to turn ok.

I MAY go ahead and try to ride this thing a couple blocks this weekend.
Need to do a major "tighten-up" session, just working from back to front of vice-versa, checking EVERY nut and bolt.

I still have lots to do, but I may try to chug it up and down the street just as a treat for myself.
One other thing I may do is pull the baffles I have rammed into my drags. It sounds OK, I guess, with them, but I can't feel it in my chest, lol, like I could the one time I briefly ran it with no baffles.

Which brings me to one more issue - I feel like the front side valves make a lot of noise. Not sure if some of you know what the top end of a stock muffler-ed (quiet) Sportster sounds like, but it can be described and pins and needles in a can - and it's just mechanical noise, really, but I don't remember hearing so much clicking and ticking on my last XS. Gotta get a thin feeler to re-adjust those front valves.

But every time I run the bike, it runs better. Those Mike's mixture screws are super easy to work with. 2 turns out and it idles NICE.
I guess more tuning issues may present themselves as I actually ride this thing.

Also before I REALLY ride it a lot, the wiring needs to be neater and tucked away better. I wired it this way just to make sure that diagram I used was actually gonna work, that the engine actually runs, etc.

I'll try kicking it again this weekend, but for now it starts right up with the elec. foot..one stab of that button and it's alive!

 

[retiredgentleman]

Well done Emz...............you have had more than your share of issues, and have solved them. Let us know how it runs out on the road, and have fun!

 

[TeeCat]

Can't see the pics from work, but I'm anxious to have a look at the progress you have made! BIG kudos on your commitment, as well! You set a great example for those of us who have wanted to just hang it up at times.

TC

 

[emzdogz]

thanks for the kind words, guys! still a good ways to go - in fact, not sure I'm "out of the woods" yet, but I think I am! Hoping by the end of this weekend that it will be a significantly more functional bike. (i.e. rideable!) Need to look into wheel bearings. Just not sure if mine are bad or not.

 

[retiredgentleman]

Wheel bearings are very long lasting..................don't worry about them............just get out and ride!

 

[emzdogz]

Soon! I should take my poor Sportster for a ride. I'm sure it feels terribly neglected.

Took off stock chain/axle adjusters. Compared axle plate spacing to that of stock swingarm. Used 4 thick washers to make up the difference and now it seems to be spaced just right, and using a hex bolt to move axle for chain adj. seems to work very well.

Got the castle nut to go ahead and tighten down without the whole axle spinning by sticking a 1/4 bolt through that hole (that nobody ever discusses the purpose of) in the big end of axle, and then propping a piece of wood from the bolt to the floor, so the axle couldn't spin as I torqued the castle nut. Now, with these spacers, the nut torques right into position to insert a cotter pin. Before, there was a bunch of space between the place the nut needed to be and surface of axle adjuster.
Once I did this and really torqued that nut pretty much to monster spec (70) - it rolls A LOT easier now! Not sure why. Chain is a little too tight for my liking, although it is new, and could stretch some.

Unfortunately, I DO have to loosen that nut again....sigh... why? because I forgot to re-attach the brake "stay" arm, so the rear caliper has nothing preventing it form rotating on the axle, altho I can't even budge the damn thing by hand, nor by gentle hammer.
Am considering making a different type of piece to use for that.
Am wondering how much force is actually ever exerted on that thing (stay arm)?

more later. Tired now. Removing, messing with, and replacing bike wheel pretty much tires me out.

 

[jayel]

tighten down without the whole axle spinning by sticking a 1/4 bolt through that hole (that nobody ever discusses the purpose of) in the big end of axle, and then propping a piece of wood from the bolt to the floor,

Unfortunately, I DO have to loosen that nut again....sigh... why? because I forgot to re-attach the brake "stay" arm, so the rear caliper has nothing preventing it form rotating on the axle, altho I can't even budge the damn thing by hand, nor by gentle hammer.
Am considering making a different type of piece to use for that.
Am wondering how much force is actually ever exerted on that thing (stay arm)?

easier to stick a large phillips screwdriver thru, it's there so you can tighten the axle if the nut has a slight bind up and tries to spin the axle

enough force to wind the brake around the axle the force needed to stop the bike from 60 mph using the brake is the same as it would be as running it into a wall at 60, just a different and better method of getting rid of the kinetic energy... in my opinion anyway

 

[emzdogz]

easier to stick a large phillips screwdriver thru, it's there so you can tighten the axle if the nut has a slight bind up and tries to spin the axle

enough force to wind the brake around the axle the force needed to stop the bike from 60 mph using the brake is the same as it would be as running it into a wall at 60, just a different and better method of getting rid of the kinetic energy... in my opinion anyway

have broken a screwdriver (handle) that way. So that made me think "dumbass you're not supposed to stick a screwdriver in there!"


as to the stay... your response still begs the question: how beefy does that sucker need to be? (brake stay) Wondering!


have a good evening, and thanks for the response.

 

[emzdogz]

just went out and re-connected the brake stay arm. Wondering though, if the spinning axle issue has something to do with needing a washer on the threaded end, next to nut with slightly smaller diameter hole in it - which is the case with stock adjusters. Left-most hole in stock adjusters (from rear) is slightly smaller (so nut cannot travel that far in on threads?). I wonder if that helps keep the axle bolt from spinning as nut is tightened down.
It was more difficult to do this time. Never did want to settle on and tighten without axle spinning. Split a piece of wood, in fact. So I would not have had any luck sticking a screwdriver through there and trying to hold it with that. Wondering, really if my axle is slightly bent.
PITA.

 

[jayel]

just went out and re-connected the brake stay arm. Wondering though, if the spinning axle issue has something to do with needing a washer on the threaded end, next to nut with slightly smaller diameter hole in it - which is the case with stock adjusters. Left-most hole in stock adjusters (from rear) is slightly smaller (so nut cannot travel that far in on threads?). I wonder if that helps keep the axle bolt from spinning as nut is tightened down.
It was more difficult to do this time. Never did want to settle on and tighten without axle spinning.Split a piece of wood, in fact. So I would not have had any luck sticking a screwdriver through there and trying to hold it with that. Wondering, really if my axle is slightly bent.
PITA.

i jinxed it you need a tapered pry bar like this

 

[emzdogz]

just adding a copy of this posting which was in another thread, so it will be here in my build thread, too. Sorry if you read it 2x and it made you insane.

Ok so now I got it to activate starter solenoid (and starter) from button on throttle housing, instead of from big dangling momentary switch/button.

Works great! I must have a hellified "accidental" ground through my bars somehow. Worked even before I fully snugged the screws to housing.

However, I don't have it tied in to coil wiring yet, so the kill switch does nothing.

Am going to wait for some better connectors to arrive so I can have what I need to do a neater (and stronger) job on that part. Don't want to compromise my coil connections at this point.